The Maria Divine Mercy messages are fomenting SCHISM and they are a deception of Satan! The messages started in 2010, and I discovered them on the Internet early in 2012. Being unsure of the messages coupled with my love of the Holy Catholic Church, I began a long journey of discovery through prayer, reading and listening especially to clergy and theologians, and comparing messages to Catholic doctrine. The list below continues to grow as I have bullet pointed solid arguments against the truth of these messages below.
OFFICIAL WORD ON MARIA DIVINE MERCY BY THE ARCHBISHOP OF DUBLIN under whose jurisdiction Maria Divine Mercy resides:
The Archbishop of Dublin has spoken out that the MDM messages are to be avoided by Catholics. Her messages are officially condemned!
The statement:
STATEMENT OF ARCHDIOCESE OF DUBLIN
ON THE ALLEGED VISIONARY “MARIA DIVINE MERCY”
Requests for clarification have been coming to the Archdiocese of Dublin concerning the authenticity of alleged visions and messages received by a person who calls herself “Maria Divine Mercy” and who may live in the Archdiocese of Dublin.
Archbishop Diarmuid Martin wishes to state that these messages and alleged visions have no ecclesiastical approval and many of the texts are in contradiction with Catholic theology.
These messages should not be promoted or made use of within Catholic Church associations.
The source: Click here: Statement against MDM by the Archbishop of Dublin
Opinions of other bishops, priests, and theologians:
- The Slovakian Conference of Bishops has condemned the Maria Divine Mercy messages as heretical. To read the full letter and an English translation, click HERE.
- Bishop Andreas Laun, Auxiliary Bishop of Salzburg, Austria warns Catholics against the MDM messages. English translation, original text, and link to original article are HERE
- Archbishop Coleridge of Brisbane in Australia has put out a letter warning Catholics against following or distributing the false messages of MDM. View the letter HERE
- The Archdiocese of Melbourne, Australia has issued a warning to the faithful to its parishes about the Maria Divine Mercy messages. Article posting inquiry of full text HERE
- Bishop Fabbro of the London diocese, (ON) Canada put out a warning against MDM in all local church bulletins. Here is the text:
“Bishop Fabbro has been asked concerning a meeting about Maria Divine Mercy which is to take place at a house in Corunna on August 15, 2013.”
“Maria of Divine Mercy is a woman who chooses to remain anonymous and has made claims of alleged privation revelations. Bishop Fabbro warns Catholics of the diocese that Maria of Divine Mercy has not received the Church’s approval. Indeed, Catholic bishops who have studied her teachings have declared that they are heretical and have forbidden priests to be involved with or cooperate in matters associated with Maria of Divine Mercy. Her prophecies contain material that is both false and contrary to Catholic teaching. The faithful should know that adhering to her teachings can result in grave sin.”
“Bishop Fabbro warns Catholics that they should not be involved with Maria of Divine Mercy nor should they give credence to her messages.” - Archbishop Jan Graubner of Olomouc, Czech Republic, warned that the consequences of messages can be 'devilish' and speculates that the person who writes the messages might be someone who 'is very clever and evil, someone who wants to harm the Church." Full text in Czech http://ow.ly/Hy32X
- "On 13 December last, Bishop Anthony Fisher, of Parramatta, issued the
following statement: “Many of you might have received email or other
communications from a woman who goes by the name of ‘Maria Divine
Mercy’.
Supposedly, she is a seer in receipt of private revelations from the Holy Trinity, Our Lord and the Blessed Virgin Mary. She runs a website called ‘The Warning’, the subject matter of which relates to the end of the world and Christ’s Second Coming.
“The messages and ‘revelations’ of Maria Divine Mercy contain theological positions that do not conform to the Catholic Church’s teachings, Scripture or Tradition. There are also historical errors. There is also a persistent animus towards various aspects of Church leadership, for example, the messages and ‘revelations’ regarding the supposedly illegitimate papal ministry of Pope Francis.
“Maria Divine Mercy’s messages enjoy no ecclesiastical support or approval. The faithful should not take seriously the messages of Maria Divine Mercy. No support should be given to the dissemination of these messages or ‘revelations’ or associated material in the diocese of Parramatta.” Source: The Catholic Weekly, Australia - Karl Keating, founder and President of the reputable organization, "Catholic Answers" says, "I have taken a look at the Maria Divine Mercy’s website, and it didn’t take but a minute to discover that this seer is fake and her messages contrary to the Church." He adds, "You need to back away from this spurious seer--and pronto." Read his opinion HERE: Catholic.com Blog
- Dr. Mark Miravalle, Professor of Theology and Mariology at Franciscan University of Steubenville says, "Ironically, the alleged message predicts an upcoming schism in the Church. This could well become a self-fulfilling prophecy, a Satanic goal and strategy, which could result, in some part, from the following of extremely dangerous and materially schismatic messages such as those promulgated by 'Maria Divine Mercy.'" Read his full analysis of the messages HERE: New Advent Blog
- Jimmy Akin, journalist for the National Catholic Register, says of Maria Divine Mercy, "[Maria Divine Mercy] is an anonymous, unapproved seer whose prophecies contain material that is both demonstrably false and contrary to Catholic teaching regarding the future. Furthermore, to adhere to her prophecies can result in the grave sin and canonical crime of schism." Read the rest of his opinion HERE: National Catholic Register
- According to an article in the Irish magazine "Alive!", Catholic priest Father Owen Gorman writes why this cannot be an apparition from God. Scroll down (pdf) to page 10: Alive! Magazine, March 2012 OR click on the image of the article at the bottom of this posting and magnify to read it. Thank you to "Anonymous" commenter for finding this article.
- Father John Hogan OCDS has written an article warning against these messages, "I would ask all Catholics to stay clear of this woman and her 'messages'. For one thing we cannot establish her credentials. When the Church examines the authenticity of any supernatural events or revelations she examines the alleged seers because their lives and integrity are part of the investigation." Read the rest of his article HERE: Ex Umbris Et Imaginibus Blog
- Father John Corrigan of Ballarat, Australia warns about Maria Divine Mercy HERE and a second article HERE
- Father Angel Sotelo of the Diocese of Fresno states, "For the reasons listed...and not even counting the theological errors which are said to exist in her messages, they should in my opinion be dismissed and not given even the pious or human faith given to an approved private revelation." He outlines his full opinion HERE and a second part HERE.
- According to the Eternal Word Television Network, "The judgment that an alleged apparition has been shown to be not supernatural means it is either clearly not miraculous or lacks sufficient signs of the miraculous. Private revelation, for example, which is doctrinally dangerous or which manifests hostility to lawful authority could not come from God. It could even be demonic, especially if there are extraordinary signs accompanying it. The devil gladly mingles truth and lie to deceive the faithful, dazzling them with signs and wonders to give credence to his message. His purpose is to separate them from the Church, either by getting them to believe things contrary to the deposit of the faith or to act contemptuously of Church authority. An attitude of pride and judgment toward the Church is a clear sign of his presence.
- According to Richard Salbato of Unity Publishing, "A sure sign of a demonically-inspired seer is their seeking self-profit, glory and power over GOD's." On her website, "Maria" is selling volumes of the messages. The second volume is set to come out and they are presently taking pre-orders. There is no bishop approval on these writings. Where is the money going? Richard Salbato has an excellent article on discerning the spirits. This is a good, long checklist by which all supposed apparitions can be measured: Testing The Spirit
- OTHER DISCUSSION:
- Without the approval of the Holy See, the handlers of the Maria Divine Mercy messages held "Book of Truth Seminars" to, in their words, "give a broad overview of what the messages are telling us about the direction of our Church and our world. help the establishment of centres of prayer and distribution, with a view to an even more important role in difficult times ahead." They have done tours of Australia and the United States to spread their propaganda It appears the promoters are actively moving toward a SCHISM.
- The compiled messages are claimed to be "The Book of Truth", an addition to the Book of Revelations in Sacred Scripture. This is patently false! Catholics are to follow the Magisterium of the church which has as its source the completed, sealed Gospel and Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is Catholic doctrine based on prayerful discernment of the Gospel by the Pope, cardinals, and bishops throughout generations ever since the founding of the Holy Catholic Church by Jesus Christ Himself. It is heresy to claim a private revelation can add to or complete Sacred Scripture. Maria Divine Mercy and her followers often refer to her book of false messages called, "The Book of Truth" as his Sacred Words, the Word or Scripture. This is heresy!
- In an audio interview from 2011, the seer claims to have seen God the Father, and says she was surprised to see there were three beings because she didn't know about the Blessed Trinity. How can this be, since nobody is allowed to be in the Beatific Vision (able to see God), unless their soul has been completely purified whether here on earth (a saint!) or through the fires of Purgatory. A person who isn't even aware of the basic doctrine of Trinity certainly has not yet achieved saint status and therefore can NOT see God.
- "Maria Divine Mercy" says these messages are URGENT. If they are urgent, she'd be anxious for her local Bishop to approve them. In her radio interview she claims her bishop "dismissed" the messages. Should this be enough for her not to promote them as she does?
- Before the election of Pope Francis in the valid Conclave of Cardinals, Maria Divine Mercy's messages referred to the next pope after Benedict as the coming "false prophet." Before as well as after his election, he has also been also referred to as, "imposter," "false prophet," "evil" who infiltrated the church, the one who "stole the seat (sic) of Peter," "abomination," and worse. This is to cause Catholics to mistrust the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which is a sure sign that Satan is in the works. Now that Pope Francis is our Holy Father, MDM followers on social media sites like Facebook are going out of their way to find twisted and skewed articles about his words from less-than-trustworthy news sources to try and "prove" he is the false prophet. They have expressed a desire for his short pontificate and even for his death. For a Catholic to actively and persistently reject an acting Pontiff is to violate the Code of Canon Law # 751 which leads to automatic excommunication. An added note: Although the church has had her ups and downs, the Holy Catholic Church was instituted by Jesus Himself and He promised us, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against it!" The messages want people to break away from the Holy Catholic Church which is the fount of truth and light.
- Here are actual Maria Divine Mercy messages from right after the election of Pope Francis in the valid Conclave of Cardinals. 3/13/13 "I have not appointed this person, who claims to come in My Name," 3/14/13 "...the imposter, who sits on the throne in My Church on earth, does not come from Me," "The time for the schism to be laid bare is close, and already, a terrible unease is being felt in Rome," 3/15/13, "You must pray for all those who run the Catholic Church. Please include the man who sits in the Chair of Peter...Pray that he will accept the Truth of the death of my Son on the Cross," (How insulting and brash that this message claims Pope Francis does not accept the death of Jesus!), "So infested are they, those who roam the corridors of Rome, that the biggest sign will be seen in the chaos, which will ensue, as they adhere to the command of the imposter," 3/19/13, "Masonic sects infiltrate the Church in Rome. Make no mistake – there can only be one pope in one lifetime, "...soon, all will see the subtle acts and the sly gestures of those false imposters who preside over My Throne in Rome, for they amount to sacrilege," 3/21/13 "The time for the division is soon and you must prepare." -~-All of these messages are encouraging a schism. The targets for these messages appear to be traditional Catholics . There have already been traditionalist schisms in past decades since Vatican II, and Satan seems to be encouraging another one. Adding fuel to the fire is the mainstream media that has written articles based on bad translations of his homilies, and exaggerated comments that he has made, for example, claiming that Pope Francis said atheists are "saved," which is a complete misunderstanding of what he actually said. (For those of you still curious, Pope Francis said that all mankind is REDEEMED, even atheists. Redemption does not mean salvation. They are different words with different meanings. Jesus did redeem all of mankind when He suffered and died on the cross. However, it is up to each and every one of us to work toward salvation by following the ways of Christ.)
- The Maria Divine Mercy messages are rife with doctrinal errors, Scritpural contradictions, self-contradictions, and simply stated, bad grammar. An example of an error is the message on 3/22/13, the Friday before Holy Week, MDM followers were requested to fast all week, and END the fast at 3:30 on Good Friday, "My dearly beloved daughter, I desire that all of My followers conduct a time of fasting from next Monday until 15:30 hours (03:30 PM) on Good Friday." However, our faith teaches that we are required to fast all day on Good Friday! Here, MDM has Catholics breaking their fast on the very day we commemorate and mourn Jesus's suffering and death! Satan is laughing.
- Would a visionary have to retract or revise a message? Thank you to a Miraculous Rosary Blog commenter who noticed this new MDM message retracting the previous fasting message, "please (sic) note that there was a typographical error in the message dated 22 March 2013 entitled 'I desire that all of My Followers conduct a time of fasting from next Monday until 15.30 hours on Good Friday' The last line should read 'If you do not wish to endure this suffering, I will grant you great blessings and ask that you continue with Me on My journey to awaken the world from its slumber and so I can lift the veil of deceit which covers it.' admin team" My blog commenter amusingly added, "I guess Jesus realized that he went too far this time." I have seen MDM messages edited, changed, and even deleted. In one example, I distinctly remember reading "jesus" telling his followers to "hoard" food. Later, I went back to find that message to demonstrate why the messages are false, and the word "hoard" was gone. No approved seer in history has made mistakes in grammar or semantics. How could he or she? The messages come directly from heaven and are infused not only into the ears of the seer, but also the hearts and souls!
- On the website you can download a paper certificate called, "Seal of the Living God" which promises God's protection for your entire family from now up until Jesus comes again if you accept the seal by praying a particular prayer. The certificate was designed from a stock photo image of a seal by commercial artist who admits he had no divine inspiration when he created it. On a social media site, he even admitted to getting paid for it! God's divine plan for the salvation of mankind through His Son Jesus Christ was clearly laid out in the Gospels. There are no "new" revelations. Second, it is explained quite clearly in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that the "Seal" being referred to in Sacred Scripture is the seal of our BAPTISM! This is a seal that can't smear if it gets wet, blow away in the wind, or get lost on a messy desk. Once Catholics are baptised, our souls carry the indelible Seal of God forever.
- In her 2011 audio interview, she called 2011 the year of purification, and said that the chastisement would come in about a year. Right now it is February, 2013 and we haven't even had the "Warning" yet, which is supposed to come before the "Chastisement". This inaccuracy alone proves false the messages. Plus, Our Lord and Our Holy Mother have never, in any approved apparition, set a date for a future apocalyptic event.
- Early in the messages, "Maria Divine Mercy" claims she was being awakened by God at 3 a.m. In her own words, she asked him not to wake her up at 3 anymore. Nobody who has the privilege of being in the presence of God, Jesus, or Mary would desire or even DARE to change heaven's schedule! Nor would he or she want to!
- Maria Divine Mercy states that she felt tired and drained after the apparitions. The only ones who claim to feel "drained" are occult mediums after they perform "healings" or communications with the "spirit world."
- At the time of her apparitions, she says she was a lapsed Catholic, bordering on agnostic. She was a very busy career woman who had no time for God. In her words, a "high flyer." I understand that God can chose whoever He wants, but Jesus warned us that Satan will deceive even the elect. Many great saints lived in fear of being deceived by Satan. Bernadette Soubirous of Lourdes wasn't sure if the apparition of Mary was a deception, and she threw holy water at her to make sure! Satan appeared to other saints looking exactly like Jesus, and each had their own way of discerning the deception. If these holy people couldn't always tell the difference, then how in the world does a lapsed Catholic, agnostic, who wasn't even aware of the Holy Trinity "know" this is really Jesus speaking and not just Satan in disguise?
- In the messages, there is a constant current of Jesus and Mary complaining about the messages not being believed by people. Did Mary complain when the Bishop of Lourdes didn't believe Bernadette? Did she complain when the Bishop of Fatima didn't believe Lucia, Jacinta, and Francisco? No. She encouraged their obedience to the church, even if it meant they weren't allowed to come out to the apparition sites during her planned visits. God is always in control.
Update: MDM's radio interview transcribed into writing; read while you listen
There are many references from approved seers throughout history about being cautious of anything that attempts to make Catholics turn away from the Catholic Church. For example, here are the words of the amazing seer Hildegard regarding the Minor Chastisement, "After the birth of Antichrist heretics will preach their false doctrines undisturbed, resulting in Christians having doubts about their holy Catholic faith...at that period when antichrist shall be born, there will be many wars and right order shall be destroyed on earth. Heresy will be rampant and the heretics will preach their errors openly without restraint. Even among Christians doubt and scepticism will be entertained concerning the beliefs of Catholicism."
Jesus warned us that in these days there would be numerous false prophets, some so clever as to deceive even the elect. One thing is certain, it doesn't hurt us to ignore private revelations altogether, and instead immerse ourselves in the truth of the Gospel and the rich teachings of the Church. If we follow the blueprint Jesus laid out for us before He ascended into heaven, we have no need of further "revelations".
We should try not to chase butterflies in the tangled forest while neglecting the beautiful ones we already have in our own gardens! And while you're there....Plant a rosary every day!
Stop chasing apparitions and embrace the profundity of the mundane!
 |
| Article in March 2012 "Alive!" Magazine. Click on the photo and magnify on your computer to read.
Updates:
Important update, May 12, 2013: The MDM fake message writers saw the post above and put out a new message TODAY but dated May 10 that begins, "Those who have not been given My Holy Word, including those countries where I Am condemned, are the first souls I must reach out to.
Through no fault of their own, they have been reared from birth to deny
God, the Maker and Creator of all that is. I will strive to convert
them through this Mission and promise that once they are shown the
Truth, during The Warning, that they will be drawn into My Mercy
quickly. I will never forsake those who have been deceived, through
false doctrines, for they are helpless and are in need of My Love and
Mercy." ~~~Here is their big mistake, and PROOF their messages are being written by PEOPLE trying to start a new schism church: THE
LETTER FROM THE SLOVAKIAN BISHOPS IS DATED FROM NOVEMBER, 2012 - A FULL
SIX MONTHS AGO! Why didn't the "message from jesus" come out back in
November or December? Instead, their message "coincidentally" comes
out on the third day after my May 9th update and other postings (on this
blog and Facebook page "Maria Divine Mercy - True or False") that
presented the Letter of Condemnation of the MDM movement by the
Conference of Slovakian Bishops. RUN
from this false movement! They are also trying to indoctrinate children
with a youth group Facebook page. In addition, they are calling out for
people in the U.S. to volunteer as leaders to start prayer groups in
their areas. Please be aware to tell your parish priests and bishops to
NOT allow this false movement to grow!
|
To Fr. Marie Paul Feb 17, 2013 @ 10:05 AM
ReplyDeleteOnly the supreme authority of the Church can grant indulgences and those who have been given this power by the Pope. God DOES NOT WORK OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH. So this claim by MDM is bogus. The authority to loose and to bind has been given to the Church by Christ himself when He said "Whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven" Plus any listing of indulgences to be granted must be given permission by the local Ordinary or local Hierarch. So any indulgence to be valid requires the express permission of the Apostolic See.
Beware of Fr. Marie Paul. He is not an ordained priest and no one knows his parish or diocese and no one has ever seen his pictures as we have all reputable priests on Facebook. He is an anti pope and he has formed a group kind of a sect on fb where he tries to use his influence using the title of a priest to turn Catholics against the church's teachings. Beware brethren! He says he receives revelation and that Jesus told his group that Pope Francis I is the false pope.
DeleteExcellent! Thanks much for your post.
ReplyDeleteThe August 4th 2011 Message mentions Mary's birthday being the following day. The church celebrates September 8th, does it not? Very strang indeed.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the 1,000 year reign... I though this was call Millenialism and already denounced ny the church.
I am very sceptical on many levels. The Next Pope is the False Prophet ?
I don't think so.
I have just finished a book called Petus Romanus by Tom Horn. Very interesting read for Catholics.
ReplyDeleteAnother personal agenda book that, whether the author is aware or not, is designed to foment schism in the Holy Catholic Church.
DeleteIf you like conspiracy theories, read Tom Horn. He also wrote conspiracy books about the United States, spooky robotics, ancient aliens,, 2012 sensationalism and much more.
If you like unsubstantiated "prophecies", then you might like this book. Many church scholars have rejected the Malachy pope prophecies as make-believe. St. Malachy's supposed writings were suddenly "discovered" in an archive room hundreds of years after they were said to be written. There is a strong dispute that they were written by St. Malachy.
If you like reading about the Illuminati and secret Mason conspiracies sparked by Dan Brown's novels of fiction, then read this book.
However, if you want to read true stories of fascinatingly heroic holy lives lived through love and trust in Christ, then read the biographies of the great saints.
The Holy Spirit is forgotten or perhaps more appropriately stated, ignored, in the media reports about the Conclave. The Cardinals will work hard to choose our new Pontiff, but the Holy Spirit will have the final say.
"And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT." Matthew 16:18
AMEN1
DeleteIn response to Fr. Marie Paul March 8,2013 @ 8:58 AM
ReplyDeleteRe Indulgences and his claim that the Church teaches otherwise and quotes Lumen Gentium #8 to back up his claim. LG #8 is not dealing with indulgences but with baptism and how people are saved outside this Sacrament. We all know that the Church recognizes the fact that people can be saved outside of the Church but here we need to be careful. Salvation is possible for those who have never heard of Christ but seek the unknown God. this is what Vatican II said “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation" (No.16) So that is what is meant by God not being bound by His sacraments. God here is not changing the rules, that is the necessity of Baptism for salvation what He is doing is making allowances for those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ and the necessity of Baptism to attain eternal life.
On Indulgences only the Pope can (through the power of the Keys) has been given the authority over indulgences. Why because God has delegated the dispensation of indulgences to the Church authorities who decide what pious practices merit a plenary indulgence to which conditions are attached.
So any private revelation claiming that God is establishing a plenary indulgence outside of the authority of the Church which He has established to govern the faithful is a liar.
Anonymous March 8, 2013 @ 9:16 PM
ReplyDeleteI checked out the August 4th 2011@ 8:30 PM and she definitely has Mary stating that “tomorrow, the 5th of August (my emphasis) is her birthday. Another lie from MDM to undermine the Church! Actually no one knows her birthdate. There is no reference in Sacred Scripture to the birth of Mary. What we know about Mary’s nativity is found in the Apocrypha, principally the Protoevangelium of James written about AD 150. From it we learn of Mary’s parents, Joachim and Anna, as well as the tradition that the couple was childless until an angel appeared to Anna and told her that she would conceive. The traditional date of her birthday is September the 8th, which falls exactly nine months after the feast of the Immaculate Conception.
And you are right the Millennialism has been denounced by the Church as well as her idea of a “seal of protection” for believers from the physical tribulation under anti-Christ. What about those who shed their blood for Christ throughout the centuries they sure were not seal or raptured up when the going got tough.
Interesting , also in Medjugorje was mentioned 5th of August as a real date of a birth of Our Lady.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me started on Medjugorje! :(
DeletePeter is the rock the church was built on. And when God makes a promise he keeps it. He made a promise to the Jews that they are his chosen people. Even though they rejected him. They are still his chosen. However, if the church one day decides abortion, euthanasia and Gay marriage are ok then it no longer is the church and will have to be changed. Lets wait and see what the new Pontiff does. Remember to follow Jesus and him only. Maybe the church will go back to a time when the priest will give you communion on your knees and we stop wearing bones and body parts around our necks. Where is the warning in the Bible. Are all our traditions Bible based?
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question: "where is the warning in the bible?"
DeleteThe Gospel according to St. Matthew 24:30
Read also Diary of St. Faustina, message 83.
To anonymous March 12, 2013 @ 2:36 PM
ReplyDeleteWhat a strange thing to say “if the church one day decides abortion, euthanasia and Gay marriage are ok then it no longer is the church and will have to be changed.”
I say strange because the Church that is the Pope the supreme ruler of the Church could never teach error or heresy. Why because the Holy Spirit is always there guaranteeing that the Church will never teach error. If you don’t believe me check it out in the Gospel. Jesus said, "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven." [Mt. 16:18-9]
Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might.
As Christians began to more clearly understand the teaching authority of the Church and of the primacy of the pope, they developed a clearer understanding of the pope’s infallibility. This development of the faithful’s understanding has its clear beginnings in the early Church. For example, Cyprian of Carthage, writing about 256, put the question this way, "Would the heretics dare to come to the very seat of Peter whence apostolic faith is derived and whither no errors can come?" (Letters 59 [55], 14). In the fifth century, Augustine succinctly captured the ancient attitude when he remarked, "Rome has spoken; the case is concluded" (Sermons 131, 10).
To believe otherwise is to call God a liar.
I know these comments are old but....
DeleteIt's interesting that we have a Pope and a Pope Emeritus...what if one "decides abortion, euthanasia and Gay marriage are ok"? Will people point to the other as the "true successor to Peter"?
Anon.May2@3:27, Both men are Catholic. The fraud and impostor is M-DM and all her minions who think they please God when they calumniate the Vicar of Christ. Mock the Pope and you might just as well spit at the face of God made visible in His Suffering Servant. "Saul, Saul. Why are you persecuting Me?" -Acts9:4
DeleteI was duped last night into attending a meeting where a former worker of Our Lady of Rwanda was going to speak to us about the message of Our Lady of Kibeho. Somehow this lady managed to link the approved messages of Kibeho with the messages of Maria of Divine Mercy found on the Internet. This poor woman said, "Did you not think that I would come again to save you?" Who is the I you might ask? Jesus is supposed to have said that to MDM. Does scripture and the Magisterium of the Church not teach that Jesus is the Lamb of God who came and was sacrificed once and for all? Does the Church teach anywhere that Jesus promised mankind 1000 years of Paradise on earth? I almost jumped out of my skin when this propagandist for MDM announced God the Father has taken the keys of Peter out of the hands of Pope Benedict when he resigned and given them back to His Son. This bold proclamation was voiced only hours after the election of Pope Francis. Don't trust him she said. Well I don't trust MDM and no Catholic so trust her either.
ReplyDeleteIt is not of God to not embrace our new Pope. We are Catholics! There is everything to indicate that Pope Francis is a Holy man of God and we have been promised in the Bible that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Catholic Church. It does not take a visionary to see that the Church is under attack from within and without, but it takes faithfulness to follow Jesus. Jesus said "be not afraid". These messages are harmful to the Church.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous March 14, 2013 @ 2:33PM
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree with you more.
The name she uses, Maria Divine Mercy - sounds like Satan making a mockery out of Mother Mary, and Jesus, Divine Mercy - and the tone of the messages are delivered in this manner of urgency and panic - I hardly think Jesus would ever speak in such a way - it brings to mind St. Faustina and how Jesus spoke to her - its interesting too, if you've read the Diary of St. Faustina and look at the MDM messages... im convinced Satan is making a mockery out of all of it...
ReplyDeleteFrom “St. Faustina’s Diary: Divine Mercy in My Soul”
Write this: before I come as the Just Judge, I am coming first as the King of Mercy. Before the day of justice arrives, there will be given to people a sign in the heavens of this sort:
All light in the heavens will be extinguished, and there will be great darkness over the whole earth. Then the sign of the cross will be seen in the sky, and from the openings where the hands and the feet of the Saviour were nailed will come forth great lights which will light up the earth for a period of time. This will take place shortly before the last day. (paragraph 83)
Jesus also told St. Faustina: You will prepare the world for My final coming. (paragraph 429)
Speak to the world about My mercy; let all mankind recognize My unfathomable mercy. It is a sign for the end times; after it will come the day of justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fount of My mercy; let them profit from the Blood and Water which gushed forth for them. (paragraph 848)
Souls perish in spite of My bitter Passion. I am giving them the last hope of salvation; that is, the Feast of My Mercy. If they will not adore My mercy, they will perish for all eternity.
Secretary of My Mercy, write, tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near. (paragraph 965)
Compare the words of Jesus here to MDM, and even the condemned messages of Vassula Ryden... total mockery by Satan....
Anonymous of March 16 at 10:30, I completely agree! This is an opinion I have also formed deep within, and it is interesting to see it in your well written words. I notice other fake visionary messages also mirror other approved messages but in a fear promoting and negative way.
DeleteNow that Pope Francis has been elected, the Maria Divine Mercy messages are overtly promoting schism in the Holy Church. They continue forward with their plans for informational meetings to promote these messages that encourage separation from the church. Their agenda is to rile up traditionalists against the pontificate of this humble new pope.
ReplyDeleteThe March 14, 2013 message, supposedly from Jesus, states, "Remember that those who proudly display the badge of humility are guilty of pride. Pride is a sin...Those of you who say that you follow My Teachings, but who want laws changed to condone acts, which are sinful in My Eyes, get out of My Church now. You are not Mine. You have turned your backs on Me and are not worthy to enter My House."
Does that sound like Jesus to you?
In the March 13, 2013 message, Jesus supposedly says, "Make no mistake, the Truth has been revealed to you. I have told you, My followers, how you will be deceived. This will be very difficult for you because you will question this IMPOSTER WHO SITS IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE...My beloved Pope Benedict XVI was persecuted and fled, as foretold. I HAVE NOT APPOINTED THIS PERSON, who claims to come in My Name." (emphasis added by me).
This is bold and brash! These messages say that the holy Vicar of Christ, Cardinal Bergoglio now Pope Francis, duly elected by the Conclave of Cardinals led by the Holy Spirit, is an "imposter", about whom "Jesus" referred to as, "this person". If one believes this claim to be true, then one must necessarily believe that Jesus lied when He said, "And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT." Matthew 16:18.
In my opinion, only Satan could have produced these MDM messages.
God, please help us! Catholics, this is a time of grave spiritual warfare. Satan has wiles to deceive even the elect, if it were possible. Pray at least five decades of the rosary every day. Our weapons are the holy mass; Eucharist, prayer, the intercession of Mary, and trust in Jesus. He will not lead us astray!
Lovey, i am consoled and assured that you too have formed the same opinion re: Satan making a mockery - reading your post today re:MDM March 14, 2013 message those who proudly display humility are guilty of pride reminded me of something i came across today from the Holy Love ministry - which as i'm sure you know has been condemned by the Bishop of Cleveland - the message for March 12, 2013 on that site states: "Sound Leadership does not give a false outer appearance of humility, but is the same inside as he is on the outside - always self-effacing with concern for the welfare of his followers." Interesting, huh?
ReplyDeleteI Haven't looked through all your posts yet - have you addressed Holy Love Ministries in your entries?
At no other time in the history of the Church have we been faced with the kind of battles that we find ourselves confronted with. The internet has opened up this way of messages of all kinds to be spread... its a battleground never seen before - its incredible.
A message from MDM Feb 13, 2013 states in part: "They, the wicked group have begun their campaign, to rid the earth of the Truth of My Teachings. My Holy Vicar has been forced into this action and will suffer greatly as a result. Masonry has infiltrated My Church on earth and soon the schism, as foretold, will create division and disquiet amongst My faithful servants.
Many have no idea as to the deceit with which they are being presented. Nor do they know that the foundation of My Church, the Catholic Church, has been crushed to dust."
I tell ya - Yes, there is one very real truth in this message --- many absolutely have no idea the deception they are falling into…
Christine, thank you for your comment. I am aware of "Holy Love Ministries" but because it received a negative judgment by the Bishop of Cleveland in 2009 (www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/statements/holylove_statement.html) I haven't paid attention to it.
DeleteI'm glad that you brought it up. Yes, I see the similarity you point out above! I hadn't noticed it before. Here is another similarity. In a message of March 16, 2013 at Holy Love Ministries, "Jesus" supposedly says,"I have set My seal upon this property and upon the foreheads of all who come here with sincere hearts. Under the protection of this seal, souls will find their way to salvation laid clear - the way defined through these Messages of Holy Love." This is almost identical to the MDM message in which a person should receive a special "seal" if they pray a special prayer for protection. In both cases, this "seal" means one does not have to suffer here on earth and will be protected from harm in the upcoming tribulations. It sounds like a free ticket to salvation.
This does not follow Jesus's words in the Gospel that we must walk the narrow and thorny path to reach salvation; that we must pick up our crosses and follow Him. As one anonymous commenter above said, this would mean that all the good saints who died as martyrs suffered in vain; all they had to do was get the special "seal" and they would have been protected. Having this "seal" would negate our needing any of the sacraments. This is blatantly false.
Good find, Christine! It seems Satan is rearing his ugly head without much imagination.
Lovey truer words were never spoken. Pray the Rosary, receive the Eucharist prayer, the intercession of Mary, and trust in Jesus and may I add follow the Vicar of Christ our newly elected Pope whose humility and holiness will bring about great changes in our world.
DeleteI can only say that with the election of Pope Francis God has answered the prayers of His faithful people to send us someone who will bring us back on track.
I look with hopeful expectancy at this man of God and what he has to offer our dark and suffering world.
Praise be Jesus Christ who has not abandoned us!
Christine thank you for bring to our attention re Holy Love Ministries and their condemnation by the bishop of Cleveland.
Your post is ten times better than the one by Jimmy Akin!
ReplyDeleteIt's perfect! Let's pray, Our Lady of Fatima said many go to hell because there is no one to pray for them!
I lost a friend to MDM=Satan....please pray for him and his family.
No wonder P.E.Benedict XVI made this year the year of Faith!
God bless!
Thank you for your compliment!
DeleteI will add your friend and his family to my daily rosary prayers.
I often think about Jesus's words on the cross, "I thirst!" We understand now that Jesus meant that He thirsts for souls. Thank you for the reminder to pray for all people, that they may find their way to heaven!
May God bless and keep you too!
I am sad for my sister is convinced that the messages of MDM are genuine. She prays the so-called crusade prayers daily. She requires her household to do the same. She has been trying to convince me to do the same. I have tried to advise her to be cautious about the whole thing but without success. I can only pray for her enlightenment. Thanks for the discussion. It has reinforced my opinion that the messages of MDM are false. They are full of hate for those who refuse to believe the messages. They even call on us to reject Pope Francis.
DeleteMay God Bless you all.
I will add your sister to my daily rosary.
DeleteThose MDM Crusade Prayers will keep people from praying the rosary. There are OVER ONE HUNDRED crusade prayers now. How is anyone able to pray all of that every day?
In REAL apparitions, our Holy Mother and Jesus always made it simple for us. At Fatima our Holy Mother asked us to pray a daily rosary. She also talks about being faithful to the sacraments of confession and communion.
I typed "Maria Divine Mercy false prophet' into Google and this paid advertisement popped up on top - it is supposed to be a critical analysis of her messages. How critical is this: http://www.all-about-the-virgin-mary.com/book-of-truth.html?gclid=CLnXvoaNkbYCFQdc3god5QIAsQ
ReplyDeleteAnonymous of March 22 at 12:58, Wow, you are right. I went to the site you posted and it looks like a giant advertisement for Maria Divine Mercy's book. I wonder if Lucia, Jacinta, and Francisco paid for newspaper ads to promote the Fatima apparitions. How about Bernadette of Lourdes? Did a French newspaper carry an ad for her visions?
DeleteMaria Divine Mercy seems to be a deliberate attempt to foment schism in the church and to make some $$$$ selling books in the process.
I too, am upset at what I see these false messages doing to my friend. It is all she can think about and talk about and she has no willingness to consider that condemning our new Pope Francis is both unjust and creates real schism. The way she sees it, those who remain faithful to the Pope are the ones in schism! And this makes sense to her! I am so sad for her since it seems to actually be making her depressed and cut off from family and friends, even faithful Catholic ones, who don't believe in MDM. Of course, no one knows who that really is! Right on her/his website she notes that some 29 translators are working on translations of her book...who are all these people and who is paying them? And why is it that they are having all those workshops in Australia-but it even says, on the website, to not leave the information in Churches. Schism right there.
ReplyDeleteI came to your site looking for some answers. It is with a great sense of sorrow that I too must share how many close family members and friends, all of whom attend Church and pray more than I do, have all been hoodwinked by this false prophet called MDM. In an effort to reason with my deluded loves ones I read the posts which continue at the Second Coming website. One has only to compare the tone of the messages with Our Lady of Guadalupe to witness the sharp contrast. How can anyone in their right mind believe Pope Francis is an abomination in the eyes of God? "What suffering is being experienced by My beloved sacred servants, close to My Heart, who know the Truth and who have to witness the abomination in My Church on earth." This is supposed to be a message from Jesus only the day after the election of our new pope. Catholics need to realize that spreading this propaganda is unjust. The good news is one of her prophecies has a short shelf life ,“There is to be a particular insult, which will be inflicted upon My Holy Name, in an effort to desecrate Me, during Holy Week. This wicked gesture... will be seen by those who keep their eyes open... you will know that the imposter, who sits on the throne in My Church on earth, does not come from Me.” Jesus, March 14, 2013
ReplyDeleteMDM asked to fast this week until Friday 15.30. Some took it too seriously apparently, on Facebook I read posts of people who wanted to abstain from food altogether from Monday till Friday, but maybe there was too much confusion? Or maybe some thought that was too tough? So well we have an amendment to the message http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/amendment-to-message-22-march-2013/
ReplyDeleteI guess Jesus realized that he went too far this time.
There is a real problem with anyone suggesting they can dispense absolution for sins and plenary indulgences completely bypassing the Church instituted by Christ which alone has the authority to "bind and loose." At least she is finally recommending the sacrament of reconciliation. Even so, if one believes Pope Francis is in league with the AntiChrist that should be first for any Catholic's confession. Sad thing is, many do realize that slandering the Pope is not pleasing to God. From MDM, March 22, "I also desire that you receive the Sacrament of Confession, or what form of reconciliation is available to you. Please, if you are unable to receive this Sacrament then accept the Gift I have given you of My Plenary Indulgence."
ReplyDeleteIf it really is Jesus talking; why couldn't he do that? If these messages contradict the Bible in any way or denigrate Jesus or the Holy Trinity, they are false. They haven't so far. We wear bones of saints around our necks. Where is that in the Bible. We listened to the Popes during the inquisition when hundreds of thousands were slaughtered in the name of Christ.
DeleteWhat is the upside for the devil in this? Pray the rosary and a hundred beautiful prayers. Are we the pharisees of the present age? Or maybe I am just gullible.
Reply to Anonymous May 15, 2013 @ 6:23 pm who stated, “If these messages contradict the Bible in any way . . . they are false.”
DeleteYou said it. They are false precisely because they do contradict the Sacred Word, as numerous posts have pointed out, carefully showing readers multiple problems which strike at the foundation of the Church. Either one is Catholic and believes all that Holy Mother Church proposes and teaches, or one assumes they have spiritual gifts and powers that surpass the legitimate successor of Peter, the Church’s supreme pastor.
A single act of obedience surpasses by light years, a hundred rosaries because our Lord is pleased with "a humble and contrite spirit."
Even the Crusade Prayers are not without objectionable content.
DeleteCrusade to God the Father #99 has an interesting request. “We . . . ask that You grant all of us the Blessings we need to ensure that only the Truth of Your Holy Word can be heard and that ALL SOULS ARE GRANTED THE KEYS TO ETERNAL LIFE.”
The keys in Scripture always symbolized power and authority. When Jesus gave the keys to His kingdom to Peter in Mat.16 He was entrusting him with His authority. This symbol would have been well understood particularly among the Jews because the symbol of the keys was used by the prophet Isaiah in chapter 22. Consequently, it strains credulity to believe Jesus would entrust the power to these keys to everybody. The great deceiver on the other hand, would have every reason to make such a request of God the Father. If every soul had the keys and therefore divine authority to determine for himself what is right and wrong Satan would have defeated the only voice in the world today who speaks with as the Vicar of Christ and has the rightful power to bind and loose. These crusade prayers which MDM wants recited every day and there must be an entire book of them by now are not without doctrinal error. Is it possible Catholics are obediently reciting these prayers without thinking? Would that they would know their scripture and catechism as well as they think they know MDM.
Don’t forget, earlier reports from this seer said that the keys of the kingdom had been returned to God the Father. Whoever is writing for the second coming website is very interested in removing the keys from their rightful owner so that he may gain illegitimate access to many souls who are wide open to all these dangerous suggestions.
Catechism of the Catholic Church no. 553 “Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The "POWER of the KEYS" designates AUTHORITY TO GOVERN THE HOUSE OF GOD, which is THE CHURCH. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep." The power to "bind and loose" connotes the authority:
Delete1. to absolve sins,
2. to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and
3. to make disciplinary decisions in the Church.
Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and in particular through the ministry of Peter, THE ONLY ONE TO WHOM HE SPECIFICALLY ENTRUSTED THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM.”
The fasting request is worrying because it prescribes a week long fast that ends at 15.30 on Good Friday. Well! Good Friday is a day of fasting and abstinence mandatory by the Church's Law.To break the fast on the Friday would constitute disobedience, would it not?
ReplyDeleteI agree. By the time Friday comes so many will be so weak that they may not even have the strength to attend Church services. Friday is mandatory. The rest of the week is optional.
Delete"“Those who ignore these warnings from Heaven are free to do so. They will not be judged because of this rejection." Mother of Salvation, Sat. March 23, 2013
ReplyDeleteCan Mary contradict the message of God the Father? Can she correct, amend the word of God? Her last recorded words in scripture, “Do whatever he tells you.” So contrast and compare this warning from March 12, 2013
“Those who follow the beast and the false prophet will be given insight, by the Power of My Hand, in order to bring them back into the Heart of My Son. If they reject this Gift, then they are lost and will suffer the same torment, which faces the imposter who will be cast into the abyss for eternity.” Your Beloved Father, God the Most High to MDM, March 12, 2013 Note: Catholics who follow Pope Francis will be cast into the abyss. Now Our Blessed Mother is putting a spin on an earlier warning. Incredible.
Repeatedly Pope Francis has been called “the false prophet”“the impostor” even “the abomination” by MDM. Granted she has not used these labels directly but the fingers are always pointing in the same direction. One has only to follow her accusing finger. Apart from the defamation, a seismic shift has happened. Juxtapose the threat of March 12, 2013, quoted above, with the statement published April 6, 2011:
ReplyDelete“Never tell those of different creeds or sexual preferences they are doomed. To push My teachings in a manner where you tell those who are not followers that they will perish or come to harm by brandishing their ways as ‘evil’.” Jesus to MDM,
It is safe to say, MDM in pushing her teachings, has broken one of her own rules against judgement and condemnation. If these were messages from heaven, they would not be diverging with each other, they would be consistent. Persons of faith can not possibly imagine God the Father saying one thing, His Son, Jesus, saying another and then the Blessed Mother castigating them, even less, in a public forum. Yet this is what MDM would have the poor innocents who follow her believe. Anyone who does not have confidence “con fidere” -to have faith in- MDM will suffer damnation.
The children of God are free to reject “private revelation” because full revelation was completed in the Word made flesh. “Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment.” (CCC #67) When one calumniates the Vicar of Christ on earth they are more than free to reject such “guidance.” It is not from above. More from the catechism: #2477 “Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor...of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.”
The fact that Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio was elected as pope hardly forms a basis for all the vitriol spewing forth from the Second Coming website. To spread these messages is an offense against truth.
March 24, 2013 MDM proclaimed Jesus saw the final destruction of His Church and Jesus declared to her it doesn't matter which religion you follow. As MDM has declared Pope Benedict XVI the last pope I will quote directly from him. "The Lord Jesus, the only Saviour, did not only establish a simple community of disciples, but constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: he himself is in the Church and the Church is in him (Jn 15:1; Gal 3:28; Eph 4:15-16; Acts 9:5). Therefore, the fullness of Christ's salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed, Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the Church (Col 1:24-27), which is his body (1 Cor 12:12-13, 27; Col 1:18). And thus, just as the head and members of a living body, though not identical, are inseparable, so too Christ and the Church can neither be confused nor separated, and constitute a single "whole Christ". This same inseparability is also expressed in the New Testament by the analogy of the Church as the Bride of Christ (2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25-29; Rev 21:2,9).
ReplyDeleteTherefore, in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must be firmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: "a single Catholic and apostolic Church".51 Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church (Mt 16:18; 28:20) and that he would guide her by his Spirit (Jn.16:13) mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church — like everything that belongs to the Church's integrity — will never be lacking." (Dominus Iesus,#16, 2000)
Well I have carefully watched all the Holy Week events on television and Maria of Divine Mercies bold predictions have not been fulfilled. To quote directly, "“There is to be a particular INSULT, which will be inflicted upon My Holy Name, in AN EFFORT TO DESECRATE ME DURING HOLY WEEK. THIS WICKED GESTURE, during Holy Week, will be seen by those who keep their eyes open and this will be one of the signs by which you will know that THE IMPOSTOR, who sits on the throne in My Church on earth, does not come from Me. Jesus to MDM, March 14, 2013
ReplyDeleteWe, the faithful, believe in a God who keeps His promises. Only false prophets give false prophecies which go unfulfilled. Witness the time of the divided kingdom of Israel and the sorry end of those who deliberately misled the People of God. Pope Francis uttered no blasphemy; committed no sacrilege or act of desecration. He has been maligned in the worse possible way by a coward who hides her identity and yet dares to speak in the name of God. (Jesus, on the other hand, spoke in public; His listeners may not have always understood or liked what they heard but He spoke in public in the synagogues and the Temple.) Millions of the faithful watched these events worldwide and waves of shock and horror were not felt around the world. The services were beautiful. Time for MDM to stop pontificating to the masses and for the impostor to come off her throne of deceit. Time to go to the sacrament of reconciliation and get down on her knees to beg God for mercy. She has rashly judged a servant of the Lord; the anointed one chosen by God. The sheep know the voice of their Shepherd and they follow Him; another they will not follow because they do not know him.
"you have My identity. With My Divine Identity you also share in My role of ministering to God the Father and to the Church with your loving adoration of reparation. I am Jesus, the Son of God and the Son of Man. Take My Identity. I will be your Shield. I will be your Armour. Put on the Full Armour of My Blood and share fully in My Role."
ReplyDeleteDoes that voice sound familiar? Who else, on the Internet today, claims to speak with the authority of God? Who claims an authority that supercedes that of our newly elected Pope Francis? Maria of Divine Mercy, using a cobbled pseudonym. Who else cobbled together a movement, taking the 'Magnificat' of Mary together with the Bread of Heaven,as a 'Meal'? Care to guess? The Magnificat Meal Movement which began in Toowoomba, Australia in 1983. The foundress of MMM, Debra Geileskey, maiden name: Debra Marie Burslem, seems to share a common interest in warning Catholics to remain the faithful "remnant." Both prophets of doom encourage attitudes of contempt for Church hierarchy. The threats of the imminent coming of Christ and the destruction of the Church are parallel in both MMM and MDM. Is it a coincidence? Is Marie Divine Mercy repackaging old prophecies which failed to materialize in 1999 and she needs fresh, innocent lambs to play with?
I've never heard of MMM. It does sound similar...and interestingly enough the eleven MDM Mission seminars to promote the messages and books were all in Australia this past winter!
DeleteThank you for your interesting comments, PocketSketch.
This is very interesting-there are claims that MDM is from Ireland, but maybe her accent was misinterpreted and she may be Australian. I am of the firm opinion that she clearly does not operate independently, so I have tried to tell my friend that these messages could be written by a man or woman, men or women, or both. Since they remain anonymous, who knows. And since he, or she, or they, are fomenting hate toward the Pope,via these messages, we can be pretty sure the writer is not Catholic, misguided, or a Catholic who is lying and in very serious sin.
DeleteThe woman who was interviewed on radio which can be found on utube has an accent from midlands possibly just west of Dublin Ireland but that does not mean that she lives in Ireland she may be living in Australia or America. Many from Ireland have emigrated to Australia in recent years. Personally I believe that there is more than one person involved in the houx.
DeleteYes, Anon. May 14@3:15pm, I agree. There is good reason to believe there is more than one person involved in this cruel hoax. Has anyone considered the costs of running that website alone? Or is our MDM a website designer with deep pockets?
DeleteAs for the comment by Anon. posted Ap.3 @ 1:48 PM I agree that we can be pretty sure the writer is not Catholic. Seriously, has anyone read her posting of May 4th loaded with curses and threats of mutilation from blinding the eyes, cutting out the tongues and cutting off the legs of all her fail to declare her legitimate? Jesus doesn't talk like that and neither do Christians. The hatred is demonic. How ironic, the author of these curses calls "herself" Marie Divine Mercy. What indignation Our Lord must feel to see His good name, Divine Mercy, so twisted and perverted. Yet her apostles are apparently fine with that too. Have they known Him so long and still do not recognize His voice? Can they not distinguish it from the impostor?
"Yet even now," says the LORD, "return to me with all your heart, with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning; and rend your hearts and not your garments." RETURN TO THE LORD, YOUR GOD FOR IS GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL, SLOW TO ANGER, AND ABOUNDING IN STEADFAST LOVE and repents of evil.” Joel 2:12-13, RSV Catholic
St Teresa of Avila a great doctor of the Church has this to say about how to tell the voice of God from one that is false and deceptive.
ReplyDeleteDivine words or "ravings of the mind?"
In no known major case have "SANCTIONED LOCUTIONS" attacked priests, bishops, or the Pope, adhering closely instead to the standard of obedience. NOR ARE THERE OTHER PERSONAL ATTACKS OR MEANDERINGS!
If the messages aren't real I still believe she thinks they are from God. And so do I. We will see. Other then the book sales what is her upside to this. I didn't see anything Holy week either other then he washed women feet. Pope Francis seems like a really great person. I would expect that however. The Malachi prophecies have been accurate up until this point. There could be a coming great deception that pulls the world into radically new beliefs. If we are really in end times we will see.
ReplyDeleteHere is another interesting coincidence between these two seers. Debra Geileskey, foundress of the Magnificat Meal Movement, was asked by a journalist why she likes to drive Mercedes Benz. She replied partly because it was the only car with the name "Mercy". Satan is the great mimicker.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the comment by Anonymous on Ap.3. Marie Divine Mercy may not be Irish. She made anonymous interviews available on Youtube and there was nothing to prevent her from sending in an actress, substitute or impersonator with an Irish accent to mislead the public. Rather like a mask behind the mask. Why should anyone assume anything she pretends to be or says is true?
I notice from reading about her that Ms. Geileskey has groups of followers in Ireland.
DeleteLovey, I listened to the audio interview you posted a link to, with MDM, given to Joyce in 2011. Heard the same comment you noted of MDM telling the Lord not to disturb her sleep at 3:00a.m.
ReplyDeleteIt may be worthwhile for the many Catholics who remain convinced she is a genuine visionary to take note of this extraordinary promise allegedly made by Jesus. At the 11min.15sec. point in the interview, 'He's coming back to SAVE US AGAIN. This time He is going to give a Warning...He is going to come back and give everyone a chance to REDEEM THEMSELVES...Did you not think that I would never [sic] come back and save you again?"
The sacrifice on the Cross was final.Jesus did save us. The second coming of Christ will be the last one. There is no third coming of Jesus regardless of whether or not He places His feet on the ground. When He comes again the world will be judged, both the living and the dead. Jesus is the Redeemer. No one can redeem himself or work his way to heaven. Read carefully what the catechism teaches about the sin of presumption.
2092 "There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God's almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit)."
The time of mercy is now. Anyone pinning their hopes that their family members, who have strayed from the faith, will be protected because they have hung the seal certificate, downloaded from a website, is foolishly putting their trust in the wrong person. Everything anyone needs to be saved is available for free in the Catholic Church. Jesus is inseparable from His Church and He has not abandoned His Bride to the devil. Where Peter is, there is the Catholic Church.
This statement from the same interview with Marie Divine Mercy in 2011 should make any Catholic who has ears, sit up and listen. "SOMETIMES, IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TWO FACES."
ReplyDeleteIt is unimaginable that Our Lord would say that He would come AGAIN to SAVE US. Jesus would never contradict so fundamental a teaching of His Church. The celebration of the Eucharist, the Sacred Mysteries are rendered meaningless by this single assertion. MDM, of her own admission in the aforementioned video of 2011, readily admits she was almost an agnostic so far was she removed from the practice of her faith. These doctrinal errors show that she is not a privileged soul receiving divinely infused knowledge. If such was the case, there would be no mistakes. Catholic followers of MDM need to seriously reflect on the foundation of their faith and recognize MDM preaches a perverted gospel; one St. Paul has reprobated in his epistle to the Galatians.
ReplyDelete“The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: [Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer Himself to God the Father by His death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption..." Catechism 1366
The sacrifice of Jesus "was once and for all" and the redemption He accomplished is everlasting. There is not going to be a third coming of Our Lord or a sneak preview. If it was according to the economy of salvation, God would have prepared His children a long time ago, just as the first coming of His Son was foretold through the ages. Reading the catechism; studying Vatican II documents and reflecting on Sacred Scripture is what every good Catholic has been called to do by Pope Benedict during this Year of Faith. There are plenary indulgences attached to those efforts which are legitimate. What better game plan could the great deceiver have than to have the laity squander the Year of Faith reading false prophecies from false prophets? It's a diversionary tactic of the enemy.
Some people came up with the idea of writing to the Archbishop of Dublin... I think it would be really good if the Church spoke on the matter, what do you think?
ReplyDeleteYes, Anonymous, sounds like a good idea. Maybe the Congregation for the Faith needs to investigate since the influence of MDM is now a worldwide phenomenon doing damage to the universal Church.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone still thinks this self-proclaimed prophet is speaking with the authority of God they would do well to read the life of a contemporary of St. Theresa of Avila. Sister Magdalena de la Cruz was a Franciscan nun born in Spain in 1487. Many people all over Europe were taken in by this woman who had made a pact with the prince of darkness. It might answer the question posed by anonymous on Ap.13 about her motives. I challenge any Catholic who has put their complete faith in Marie Divine Mercy to read this and see how confident they feel afterwards.
http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html
Yes it is a good idea but first they have to find him or her. Nobody except the people involved in the website know who they are. Does anyone know how to find the source of a website? How is Archbishop Martin supposed to do anything if they can't be found. He would need to write a letter to be read out at all the churches thoughout the country but then that would raise the curiosity of the people who have never heard about MDM and they would go searching the internet and find the messages and then even more people would be taken in.
DeleteI see your point, Anonymous May 15, 2013. Make a concerted effort to find "her." This false prophet is not harmless. "She" is a very serious source of infection in the Church; for that reason, reading a letter from every pulpit throughout the country, unequivocally condemning her would be a good place to start. The silence of the Church hierarchy is giving this "woman" great influence and power to spoil many souls.
DeleteMoreover, the Church has the structural means to request any member of her faithful to come forward with any information concerning the true identity of MDM. A few bloggers can not directly reach as many Catholics as the priests who stand before a pulpit each Sunday and preach to real parishioners. (Many of these parishioners may already be infected by MDM and need a sharp slap on the cheek to wake them up.) Bloggers do not communicate with the authority of a bishop who has been given by ordination, participation in the ruling power of the supreme pastor, Christ.
MDM is a real threat to real people and real people are suffering as the clergy scratch their heads and wonder what to do if they are aware at all that the souls under their care are distressed, anxious and disrupted by these false prophecies. What did Jesus say? "Feed my sheep." Leave the flock and go find the lost sheep.
Acts 20: 28-31
“Keep watch, then, over yourselves, and over God’s Church, in which the Holy Spirit has made you bishops; you are to be the shepherds of that flock which he won for himself at the price of his own blood. I know well that ravening wolves will come among you when I am gone, and will not spare the flock; there will be men among your own number who will come forward with a false message, and find disciples to follow them. Be on the watch then...”
I am taking up your suggestions. Here is an email I sent to the Archdiocese of Dublin:
ReplyDelete"I am wondering what the Archdiocese is saying about the supposed visionary who calls herself "Maria Divine Mercy". I live in the States and know Catholics who think the messages are genuine. I haven't seen or heard anything the church is saying about these messages which are basically storming the world. I'm sure you have heard of them but, in case not, the website for the "seer's" messages from God, Jesus, and Mary is www.thewarningsecondcoming.com
"Below is an article that has a link to an 2011 audio interview of the alleged seer. The comments below the article represent the great confusion these messages are causing, especially regarding the pope. This group is being aggressive selling books and having public meetings to spread their messages, but what does the Diocese of Dublin have to say about all this?
http://miraculousrosary.blogspot.com/2013/02/maria-divine-mercy-deception-of-satan.html?showComment=1365815085911#c5699100189398496135
Thank you!
Lovey"
"
Let's hope the archbishop receives your email and takes it seriously. As a shepherd of the flock he most certainly should be concerned that a false prophet is stirring up excitement and anxiety about the return of Christ. St. Paul warned believers not to be seduced. Regardless, many have been deceived.
ReplyDeleteA poster on Karl Keating's Catholic Answers forum remarked he was a convert to Catholicism from the Jehovah Witnesses and wanted to have nothing to do with MDM. Why? Because she sounds exactly like a JW. Whichis a further confirmation that Debra Geileskey, notorious foundress of the Magnificat Meal Movement, may be the instigator behind this Internet hoax. At some point, as she was distancing herself from the Church, she outraged some of her Catholic followers when she began removing statues of the saints. She had already started to leave Catholicism and was fascinated with the JW's.
The Irish Catholic forum which is likewise following this story has drawn connections with the Little Pebble movement in Australia. Apparently, the priest promoting those condemned messages is also promoting Maria Divine Mercy. Not a wholesome combination. Is it a coincidence? Is the secondwarning website garnering predictions from the Little Pebble? Who knows.
In any case, both of these seers, Debra Geileskey and the Little Pebble, have been set aside as false, not from God, even 'dangerous.' It would explain why Marie Divine Mercy is hiding her identity. Not fear of persecution but knowing full well, faithful Catholics would be shocked and repulsed if they saw the face behind the mask.
There is a theological evaluation by Dr Mark Miravalle professor of theology at Franciscan University of Steubenvill, Ohio specializing in Mariology. It appears to me that someone in the Church is taking notice of the nonsense coming form MDM
ReplyDeleteJust Google "Maria Divine Mercy" A theological evaluation - Dated March 29, 2013
You are correct. In my article above, the thirteenth bullet point discusses the evaluation of Dr. Mark Miravalle and includes a link to his article.
DeleteAlthough various individuals have taken notice, many priests included, I am hoping to hear something from the Archdiocese, assuming the seer is from Dublin as many are speculating. Nobody knows for sure.
There is a rather interesting site called locutions.org--Below is a introduction for anyone interested. When reading them we see the contrast between MDN and what is being said in these locutions.
ReplyDeleteLet me introduce myself; I am Monsignor John Esseff, a diocesan priest of Scranton, Pa., ordained in 1953. In 1959, Padre Pio became my spiritual director. For many years, I was the spiritual director for Mother Teresa of Calcutta. As a favor to her, I traveled all over the world, giving retreats, to her sisters. Above all, I am privileged to be spiritual director for hundreds of souls, at every stage of the spiritual life. Some are beginners, others are advanced and some are mystics.
For many years, I have been director for a special soul. Five years ago, Jesus and Mary began to speak to this soul through the gift of locutions (as described by John of the Cross). These locutions now total over 800. I have discerned the validity of these locutions. Until now, these locutions were personal teachings given for the small community that gathered in prayer. Beginning on December 10, 2010, a new phase began, namely, some locutions were to be told to the whole world.
The beginning locutions are very special; focusing on the Fatima Vision (released by the Vatican (June 2000).
Concerning Private Revelations: These are private revelations and there is no need to believe them. If these revelations help your faith, then receive them. If not, you can set them aside. We are called to believe only public revelations.
I have posted an article on Msgr. John Esseff and the Locutions website on this blog, article of March 2, 2013. Locutions.org and MDM are diametrically opposed, especially regarding the pope.
Deletehttp://miraculousrosary.blogspot.com/2013/03/locutions-to-world.html
There seems to be a great amount of energy expended here researching every possible way to refute the validity of these messages rather than prayerful discernment over whether or not they are "real." Before reading or listening to these messages it is always suggested that everyone say this prayer: "O Jesus, cover me with your precious blood and fill me with the Holy Spirit, so that I can discern whether these words come from you. Humble me in spirit. Receive my pleas with mercy, and open my heart to the truth." We have also come before the Lord in Eucharistic Adoration and sought direction from our Lord with regards to these messages. Now I would humbly ask anyone here that under these circumstances, whether you believe that after praying the prayer of discernment above, or after our pleas for guidance and direction during Adoration, the Rosary, or the Divine Chaplet, and feeling nothing but inner peace, that we are being mislead? I refuse to accept that. Our Priest told us similarly to above, that these are private revelations, and there is no requirement to believe them or disbelieve them, and that likewise, if they help us in our faith, to receive them, especially following our prayer in the Lord's name, for discernment. Should we seek out a Priest who advises us otherwise, or trust in his advice and our prayerful discernment? I don't sense an overabundance of love on this blog, Our prayers are with and for, everyone here.
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be a great amount of energy expended among MDM researching every possible way to prove that that our Pope is the evil false prophet.
DeleteSome of the MDM followers prayed for the Pope's death believe it or not. It's been thereon MDM Facebook page since March 30, nobody was bothered by it apparently and the prayer request even got 4 'likes'.
As for the inner peace, I got an email once from an unknown girl who told the story of how she found inner peace in.... Islam.
And how about the predictions that didn't come true? Where is that wicked gesture? It should have been something obvious yet you guys cannot agree on just one, so you came up with a few... washing feet of a Muslim woman (gee that's soooo wicked), the way he kissed the crucifix, and a few others I cannot remember.
These are the fruits and by fruits you shall know them, not by inner peace that is there today but might not be there tomorrow. When Eve tasted the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden she found it tasted good... for real results she had to wait a bit longer than that,
Wow! You folks better hope that you are right to tear apart MDM, as well as anyone who might find goodness and love in the messages she receives. If I pray in Jesus name for discernment, say the rosary daily, as well as the Divine Chaplet, and am fortunate to be able to be with the Lord every week in Adoration, I hardly think the inner peace I receive can be equated to "finding Islam." You people are cruel and judgmental. I pray for your soul as well. Come Lord Jesus.
DeleteAnonymous, you said, "If I pray in Jesus name for discernment, say the rosary daily, as well as the Divine Chaplet, and am fortunate to be able to be with the Lord every week in Adoration, I hardly think the inner peace I receive can be equated to "finding Islam."
DeleteHave you considered that through your prayers for discernment God has led you to the article above, and possibly other articles like it, that warn you against MDM? I believe your prayers are being answered.
Reply to Anonymous of April 26 at 10:28 a.m.: I was curious about what you wrote so I went and a look at the MDM Facebook page. An MDM commenter did indeed wish for the demise of Pope Francis. Here is the comment, "Dear Lord, thank you for protecting us and for exposing anti-Pope Francis for who he really is: an emissary from Hell.
Delete"Keep us safe from him, make his days few and his life short, for the sake of Thine elect. Amen."
Underneath this comment are four "likes" and pasted below are the first two responses to this prayer for the death of Pope Francis (The first writer does not have English as his native language):
1. "We must pray for false prophet like Mary prayed for Judas...that is love of enemy...even if we could know he will lose his soul..what about limiting the damage caused to souls, to victims of his lies and deceit??...pray to mitigate le pire châtiment, the chastizement the worst, a wolf in shepherd's clothes, and lukewarm sheepish shepherds...that only are there because we lack faith, hope and charity and are lukewarm in general...we reap what we sowed and now we have the king we want...like chiildren in family, the elder ones might not change and go against parents, but we pray so that they do not influence the minds of younger ones...we pray for the one who is playing Vicar of Christ to limit les dégâts, the massacre caused by his abuse of power and authority...Jesus always respect High Priest and Pilate, religious and civil authority, but He said: You have no power over me unless given to you from above!...and will answer for dat!..."
2. "Nicholas we are all very frustrated about his election, but he is fulfilling prophecy in Scripture. He must do the job he was intended for. We pray that his time as pope will be short and we pray that his soul will come to conversion at the hour of death. His death is in the Hands of God. It is not for us to pray for his death. That is not in God's Will. But it is understandable how you feel. We all hope and pray that his time in the Church will be short. God Bless you."
So there you have it. The MDM believers are referring to Pope Francis as Judas and are praying for his death. Other comments said that Pope Francis washing the feet of the prisoners on Holy Thursday was just like when the crowd asked for the release of Barrabas from prison instead of Jesus. On other posts, there are people talking about splitting the church. They discuss minute details about different gestures Pope Francis makes, hoping to find some "evil" intent.
This is not of God, and the MDM people are fomenting schism, as this article warns.
So, you are assuming that anybody who does not believe in the MDM messages must not be praying. Isn't that rather presumptuous? Perhaps it is through our prayer lives that we have discerned the messages are Satanic deceptions.
ReplyDeleteDid you read the article at all? Many MDM messages go against Catholic teaching. To believe in these messages, one risks heresy. Are you Catholic? If you are rejecting this present pope as fake; the anti-pope as the messages say, then you are violating Canon Law.
I disagree with your priest about private messages. If they contain heresy it is imperative we DISBELIEVE them!
I haven't yet seen or heard any MDM believer refute the above objections with reasonable and believable counterpoints. For the most part, MDM followers blindly believe the messages and dismiss the views of those who don't believe without even considering their logical arguments against it.
Your comment is proof of this because your opinion is that if we don't believe, it MUST be because we aren't praying.
I don't believe in MDM because I DO pray, and I do know what the Holy Catholic Church teaches. Do you?
Peace to you. My intent was not to disparage you or anyone else here, and/or question one's prayer life. Your argumentative and judgmental tone, is very telling to me. I do not judge you or anyone else. Are you in a position to disagree with my priest and supercede his guidance and counsel? Also, as stated above, before reading this or any of the messages posted by MDM, we pray : "O Jesus, cover me with your precious blood and fill me with the Holy Spirit, so that I can discern whether these words come from you. Humble me in spirit. Receive my pleas with mercy, and open my heart to the truth." Are you truly, telling us that these words and the discernment that follows, are of Satan? Our eyes are open and our ears are to the ground, and time will tell as to the truth of these messages. Our prayers are with you. Come Lord Jesus.
DeleteQ. "Are you in a position to disagree with my preist and supercede his guidance and counsel?"
DeleteA. YES, if he is giving incorrect guidance. No priest should advise his sheep to follow heretical messages.
Q. "Are you truly,(sic) telling us that these words and the discernment that follows, are of Satan?
A. Yes. Whether directly through a disguised apparition to MDM by Satan, or through her own questionable intent. Satan has a history of mixing truth with lies. Have you ever heard about Sister Magdalena of the Cross? The nuns in her convent thought she was so holy they elected her Mother Superior. She was considered a living saint and people from all over Spain asked for her prayers. Miracles even happened through her, as well as some very strange and questionable things including some extraordinarily severe penances she would demand from the sisters in her charge. A few devout nuns suspected something was amiss but their views were hushed. It turned out that as a youth Sister Magdalena had made a pact with the devil to become a high ranking religious. She made a good confession and repented before she died.
I guess we need to change parishes until we find a priest who's spiritual guidance in and out of the confessional, meets the approval of "Lovey" an anonymous blogger on the internet. Perhaps we should also just stop praying in Jesus name for discernment, because my question to you pertained to this prayer: "O Jesus, cover me with your precious blood and fill me with the Holy Spirit, so that I can discern whether these words come from you. Humble me in spirit. Receive my pleas with mercy, and open my heart to the truth" And your reply insinuates that it and any resultant positive discernment is of Satan. Lovey, you need to be very careful about the lines you are crossing. Who are you and what is your Roman Catholic Diocese?
DeleteI post your comment for only one reason, and that is for others to see the "spirituality" of MDM followers.
DeleteI do not like the threatening sound of your statement, "Lovey, you need to be very careful about the lines you are crossing."
Also, food for thought: has it occurred to you that being on this forum IS God answering your discernment prayer? He can do nothing if you choose to ignore Him.
DeleteLovey, Thank you for taking the time to reply to me, albeit you only seem interested in disparaging everything I say, and avoiding my direct questions posed, as well as misinterpreting the intent. As to my comment regarding "Line Crossing" which you perceived as a threat, nothing could have been further from the truth. It was meant to express my concern for your soul, as it seems as though your comments appear to be more judgmental in nature rather than offered lovingly. Thank you sincerely for making a reference to my "spirituality" The entire original premise of my post here was to let people know that anyone that reads a MDM message is directed to pray: "O Jesus, cover me with your precious blood and fill me with the Holy Spirit, so that I can discern whether these words come from you. Humble me in spirit. Receive my pleas with mercy, and open my heart to the truth." Only good has come about for us as a result of reading these messages...Daily Rosary, Daily Chaplet of Divine Mercy, Eucharistic Adoration...Satan would/could NEVER push us in that direction. I will continue to pray for you, and for all souls, as I hope you will for me.
DeleteFor the most part, I have been answering your questions directly. With regard to your discernment prayer, I have answered that too. I said that your prayer, sincerely said as you claim, led you to this article.
DeleteSatan is clever, and as I said before, he most definitely can and will promote good things in order to bring about bad; namely, getting people to reject the pope as the MDM messages advise. The reason you feel "judged" is you don't like my answers, you don't like that I can easily respond and refute your arguments, and you don't like that you can't convince me.
The reason you can't convince me is that I too have spent quite a bit of time over these messages. Reading, praying, studying Catholic doctrine with relation to some of the more questionable MDM messages, noticing that events predicted by MDM did NOT happen, studying OTHER messages that have been deemed valid as well as those deemed not valid by local bishops, and reading the opinions of numerous theologians and priests with regard to these MDM messages; all of these things have led me to believe these messages are deceptions.
I can't tell you if she is making them up or if she herself is being deceived by false apparitions. As far as the "Book of Truth" writings go, there are numerous volumes of supposedly "spiritual" writings from different "seers" that have been deemed not valid by the church. I think the fact that the MDM people went ahead and started a campaign of seminars to sell the messages and volumes of books are another indicator that these are false. No true seer would ever do anything without first the approval of the church.
AN "OPEN LETTER" TO PROFESSOR MARK MIRAVALLE
ReplyDeleteYou make a good case against the authenticity of the messages coming from Maria Divine Mercy, but all of your reasons are based on rational theology. You seem to conclude that this Maria is a deluded and irreverent Irish housewife concocting these messages ...from her own imagination. Other people are using your arguments to say these messages are satanic in nature, presumably inspired by some evil spirit!
If Maria is simply a deluded woman with a hyperactive imagination, then it should be possible to duplicate what she is doing. Will you please find someone else to construct a similar "book of truth" from their own imagination!
As for the opinion that these messages are the product of some evil spirit, I can't believe that! Can you? What evil spirit would plead for the daily recitation of the Most Holy Rosary? Or advocate the daily Divine Mercy Chaplet for the conversion of hardened sinners? Or frequent adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and daily Mass? And also adherence to the Traditional Teaching of the Catholic Church!
I have another request, if I may! With your rational theology arguments please explain to me how the Pharisee Saul became Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles. Jesus had already established His Church with Peter as His Vicar on earth, with at least two other apostles, James and John, still in the area! How could Jesus dare to act independently of the Hierarchy of the Church and convert Saul "out of the blue" on His own? And not only convert, but instruct him in the Gospel and anoint him as an apostle, all independently of Peter? How could this happen, if Jesus is constrained to act solely and forever within the confines of the hierarchal authority of His own Church?
If you read these messages from the beginning, it is VERY CLEAR TO ME that it is JESUS HIMSELF TAKING NOT ONLY THE INITIATIVE BUT THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY for the content of this book. On several occasions Jesus has reminded Maria to the effect, "you are the scribe, I am the author." Professor Miravalle , if you use the same analytical reasoning to search Sacred Scripture, you can find a lot more heresies! But Jesus cautions us not to defend HIS WORD.
So I will conclude by saying that I personally, after almost one year of prayer and discernment, accept all the messages at their face value, proclaiming my total fidelity to the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church especially as promulgated in our own time by Blessed Pope John Paul II.
Fr F. Elsinger
Fr. Elsinger, to what Roman Catholic Diocese do you belong?
DeleteIf you believe in the "Maria Divine Mercy" messages, then is it safe for me to assume you reject Pope Francis as the "anti-pope" or the "imposter" as the supposed seer claims? Can you continue to be a Roman Catholic priest while also believing this?
Saul never saw the face of God. Nobody has ever seen God unless he or she has achieved sainthood. Saul was fervently and ferociously defending God in his travels. Jesus rewarded Saul's fidelity to the real, living God by affirming to him that Jesus of Nazareth in fact WAS the Messiah. You can't compare an agnostic, almost atheistic, "high flying" businesswoman, as Ms. Mercy herself says, to Saul of the bible, who was fervent and sincere in defending God's law.
I await your response to my questions above.
This letter from that priest is available on the net pasted on various pages but I cannot find the original. You are not talking to a priest Lovely, just someone who pasted some stuff
DeleteAfter reading through these posts, this is what I found when I searched for Father Francis Elsinger. I will take it upon myself to validate the authorship of this letter from him and share it. I am a simple man from Wisconsin. I love and pray for all of you and ask that you keep me in your prayers as well.
DeleteSteve Jacobson
see below that which is copied and pasted.
Through this Movement, I am calling all my children to consecrate themselves to my Heart, and to spread everywhere cenacles of prayer. — To the Priests Our Lady's Beloved Sons (473i)
http://www.mmp-usa.net/main.html
HONG KONG
Fr. Francis Elsinger
8th Fl. Flat B, Sung Lan Mansion
37 Leighton Rd., Tung Lo Wan
Hong Kong, Sar, China
Thank you for this information Steve. I notice Fr. Elsinger is a member of the Marian Movement of Priests founded by Father Stefano Gobbi (3/22/30 - 6/29/11). In 1972, Father Gobbi supposedly had interior locutions from Mary to form this organization. He wrote a book of the messages, "To The Priests, Our Lady's Beloved Sons."
DeleteNo decision regarding approval of this movement has been made by the church.
Our Lady of Lourdes Chapel
DeleteP.P.: Rev. Francis G. Elsinger
Yung Shue Wan, Lamma Island North, Hong Kong.
Tel: 2982-0419
Received this from the Archdiocese in Hong Kong. I have written a letter to Father Elsinger
Steve
This is a direct quote from Maria Divine Mercy: “Those who take it upon themselves to declare their superior knowledge of spiritual matters laid down by the Teachings of God, through the prophets, need to be very careful. When such souls declare their so-called knowledge, by boasting of their intellectual assessment of Holy Doctrine, instead of focusing on the importance of humility, THEY OFFEND ME.” April12/13
ReplyDeleteReply to MDM and followers:
Yet again, another rant from the second coming website against anyone who dares to consult orthodox Catholic teachings rather than take at face value all her “Holy Doctrine.” This is amazing considering MDM has declared she is the 7th Messenger, the 7th Angel sent to reveal to the world the contents of the Seals in the Book of Revelation. Anyone who could believe Jesus would say that is seriously handicapped in their sense of reality and in no position to accuse anyone of the sin of pride. According to Catholic tradition, the Apostolic See is the Teacher of Truth. Jesus would never displace the authority He gave to His apostles when He established His Church to give it to another. It is not according to His plan of salvation. If He wanted to wipe the slate clean and start all over again He would have done so after Peter denied Him three times during His hour of need 2,000 years ago. Flaws, frailties, failures and all Jesus stuck with His apostles and passed on to them the power to bind and loose.
Intelligence is a God-given gift; the faithful are called to ‘love the Lord with all their heart, with all their soul, with all their mind” Catholic faith is not separate from reason and it is unreasonable to demand unquestioning faith in MDM who doesn’t even have the courage of a true prophet like John the Baptist who was prepared to suffer death. How seriously would the Israelites have taken him if he stayed hidden in a cave and used carrier pigeons to send out his proclamations? We “need to be very careful” when reading anything issuing from such a dubious source. Pope Benedict and Bl. John Paul II wrote and spoke extensively on faith and reason.
ReplyDelete“People cannot be genuinely indifferent to the question of whether what they know is true
or not. If they discover that it is false, they reject it; but if they can establish its truth, they feel themselves rewarded. It is this that Saint Augustine teaches when he writes: "I have met many who wanted to deceive, but none who wanted to be deceived" J.P.II, “Faith and Reason,” encyclical.
Blind loyalty to an anonymous seer who is, by definition, a stranger hiding in the shadows of cyber space is not the virtue of humility; it is naivety.(Galatians 1:6-9)
MDM followers claim to get peace from reading those messages but somehow they get angry so easily... somehow I find that part about inner peace rather hard to believe.
ReplyDeleteBut... I just discovered a page on Facebook. It says:
The Remnant Church of Christ
Description
The Remnant Church is the collection of the remnant members of the Church of Christ who are still loyal to his teachings through the teachings of the 2000 year old Church uncorrupted by evil teachings. Once the False Prophet & the Antichrist are exposed to the world, the Remnant Church will be lead by Pope Benedict XVI with the help of Lord Jesus Christ and his messages through true prophets on earth like MDM and others.
If you think this is weird you should read the posts on that page. I will spare you that, however, because it's so idiotic and weird...
More fruit of MDM...
This comment from above is being re-posted. MDM followers wish for the death of the Holy Father:
ReplyDeleteReply to Anonymous of April 26 at 10:28 a.m.: I was curious about what you wrote so I went and a look at the MDM Facebook page. An MDM commenter did indeed wish for the demise of Pope Francis. Here is the comment, "Dear Lord, thank you for protecting us and for exposing anti-Pope Francis for who he really is: an emissary from Hell.
"Keep us safe from him, make his days few and his life short, for the sake of Thine elect. Amen."
Underneath this comment are four "likes" and pasted below are the first two responses to this prayer for the death of Pope Francis (The first writer does not have English as his native language):
1. "We must pray for false prophet like Mary prayed for Judas...that is love of enemy...even if we could know he will lose his soul..what about limiting the damage caused to souls, to victims of his lies and deceit??...pray to mitigate le pire châtiment, the chastizement the worst, a wolf in shepherd's clothes, and lukewarm sheepish shepherds...that only are there because we lack faith, hope and charity and are lukewarm in general...we reap what we sowed and now we have the king we want...like chiildren in family, the elder ones might not change and go against parents, but we pray so that they do not influence the minds of younger ones...we pray for the one who is playing Vicar of Christ to limit les dégâts, the massacre caused by his abuse of power and authority...Jesus always respect High Priest and Pilate, religious and civil authority, but He said: You have no power over me unless given to you from above!...and will answer for dat!..."
2. "Nicholas we are all very frustrated about his election, but he is fulfilling prophecy in Scripture. He must do the job he was intended for. We pray that his time as pope will be short and we pray that his soul will come to conversion at the hour of death. His death is in the Hands of God. It is not for us to pray for his death. That is not in God's Will. But it is understandable how you feel. We all hope and pray that his time in the Church will be short. God Bless you."
So there you have it. The MDM believers are referring to Pope Francis as Judas and are praying for his death. Other comments said that Pope Francis washing the feet of the prisoners on Holy Thursday was just like when the crowd asked for the release of Barrabas from prison instead of Jesus. On other posts, there are people talking about splitting the church. They discuss minute details about different gestures Pope Francis makes, hoping to find some "evil" intent.
This is not of God, and the MDM people are fomenting schism, as this article warns.
I followed your link and saw many comments being made on the MDM Facebook page with little, if any admin interference. You keep posting the comments made by one or two. They do not represent the whole.
DeleteAnonymous of May 9 at 11:32,
DeleteThe Conference of Slovakian Bishops has condemned the MDM messages as heretical, and they warn the faithful to stay away from them and priests are warned not to spread them. See text of their letter here: http://miraculousrosary.blogspot.com/2013/05/mdm-condemned-as-heretical-by-slovakian.html
I suggest you run fast away from this diabolical movement. It is designed to cause traditionalists to break away from the church.
Lovey, thanks for posting those comments on Facebook. That people could be praying for the demise of Pope Francis only demonstrates what degree of fear and irrationality MDM has stirred up in the faithful.
ReplyDeleteReply to Anonymous, Ap.26/13 at 11:47am “An Open Letter to Professor Miravalle”
ReplyDeleteAnonymous has written, “Jesus had already established His Church with Peter as His Vicar on earth, with at least two other apostles, James and John.” Here is the heart of the matter. Sadly, many adherents of MDM who are engrossed with the “Book of Truth” have an incomplete understanding on the fundamental nature of the Church. Let’s get back to the basics. There is no room for uncertainty. Too many have been too hazy for too long.
Jesus established His Church by appointing and training the twelve apostles. This was part of God’s plan of salvation history as we see foreshadowed by the twelve tribes of Israel. The Church therefore is “apostolic.” In them Christ continues His mission. “As the Father has sent Me, so I send you.” (Jn20:21) The pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the very foundation of the Church and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope. By investing in them His authority to govern the house of God which is the Church, Jesus reconstructed the kingdom around Himself. For that reason, the kingdom of Christ is already present in mystery on earth. The Church is the seed and the beginning of the kingdom. We read in the catechism that there is a “structure” and the Church “will remain until the Kingdom is fully achieved.”
CCC no. 765 “The Lord Jesus endowed his community with a structure that will remain until the Kingdom is fully achieved. Before all else, there is the choice of the Twelve with Peter as their head. Representing the twelve tribes of Israel, they are the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem. The Twelve and the other disciples share in Christ's mission and his power, but also in his lot. By all his actions, Christ prepares and builds his Church.”
Undoubtedly, there are problems within the Church but one must never think that Our Lord is no longer present in His Church, the indivisible Mystical Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Whenever MDM. attacks the Church, she attacks Christ. Jesus said to Saul of Tarsus, “Saul, Saul why are you persecuting Me?” (Acts9:4) Our Saviour cannot be separated from His Church; they are one.
“About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they're just one thing, and we shouldn't complicate the matter." St. Joan of Arc
It is incredible how serious, devout, lifelong Catholics could still follow MDM. Her foundation is built on sand. When will the scales of blindness, fall off the eyes of all these mesmerized readers of the “Book of Truth?” MDM has declared, on more than one occasion, that she is the Seventh Angel described in the book of Revelation. (Sept.6/12)
I would like to respond to the question concerning St. Paul posed by Fr. Elsinger.
ReplyDelete“There was a disciple in Damascus named Ananias, and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias...Get up and go...ask at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul. He is there praying, and in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come in and LAY his HANDS ON HIM, that he may regain his sight.” Ananias protested because he knew of Saul’s persecution of the faithful in Jerusalem. The Lord said to him, “I WILL SHOW HIM WHAT HE WILL HAVE TO SUFFER FOR MY NAME.” So Ananias went.... “LAYING HIS HIS HANDS ON HIM [Saul], he said, “Saul, my brother, the Lord has sent me...that you may regain your sight and be FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. He got up and was baptized.” Acts 9:10-19
Fr. Elsinger, note that Jesus had Paul’s vocation confirmed by the “laying on of hands.” Jesus did not act independently of His Church but in coordination with it. Was St. Paul filled with the Holy Spirit on the road to Damascus or later through the laying on of hands and baptism he received the Holy Spirit? In confirmation and during the sacrament of Holy Orders the imposition of hands is very significant in that, in a certain way, it perpetuates the grace of Pentecost. Authority from the Apostles to their successors the bishop is passed on through the laying on of hands. Therefore your claim that Jesus acted outside of His Church is unfounded and a misinterpretation of Scripture. Marie of Divine Mercy has not received the approbation of the Church of Christ. Her messages were rejected by an archbishop, as she herself has acknowledged, and she is bypassing the legitimate authority Jesus entrusted to the Church. Read Acts 15 where Paul went up to Jerusalem to the apostles because they needed to settle a debate about circumcision. It is very clear, Paul was prepared to submit to Petrine authority. MDM simply does not measure up.
Furthermore, Jesus told Ananias that Paul would have to suffer. MDM is not willing to suffer for what she believes in. No one can be a disciple of the Lord, let alone a prophet if he is not willing to pick up his cross and carry it daily. This seer is not willing to even suffer persecution for the sake of proclaiming “the Truth” yet her apostles are asked to put their eternal salvation at risk. How cheaply they sell their souls in the service of a stranger. Another has bought their souls at the cost of His own Precious Blood and yet they refuse to follow the Good Shepherd.
For the record, my parish priest has talked with a couple of MDM apostles and came away so shaken up by the encounter he is convinced there is a diabolical presence.
No. Who I am and where I am from is not relevant to the facts I posted in the article. Considering the veiled threat I received above, I'm glad to be an anonymous Catholic.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if somebody comes in and places the title "Father" before their name, it is necessary to know whether it is a REAL Roman Catholic priest or a fake. If one claims to speak with the authority of the church, one must be an ordained member in good standing to have credibility.
A real Roman Catholic priest would not hesitate to post the diocese to which he belongs if he speaks with knowledgeable authority on these matters.
The following is a direct quote from MDM in the voice of our Bl. Mother: “[m]y Son now prepares you for HIS SECOND COMING . . . Just as God sent John the Baptist to prepare the world for my Son ... my Son now reveals to you the final plan. This final plan of salvation will be similar to His first coming, but with one difference. This time, HE WILL NOT COME AS MAN IN THE FLESH.” April 24, 2013
ReplyDeleteResponse to MDM: The Mother of God In 1 John chapter 4 Christians are warned not to “believe every spirit, but [to] test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” The fact that we are told not to expect to see Jesus return “in the flesh” is no insignificant detail. It warrants close examination because it touches on core beliefs on the Incarnation and the Resurrection for openers. St. John continued with his exhortation, “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come IN THE FLESH is of God.”
“The Church ... confesses that Jesus is inseparably true God and true man.”(CCC469)
“Following the holy Fathers, we [Council of Chalcedon] unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity...” (CCC467)
Just wondering if the apostles of MDM understand the import of the repeated statements by her that Jesus will not come "in the flesh" are not Christian let alone Catholic. So I was reading the Catholic Answers website on "Great Heresies." Fortunately, at this point, while Catholics who deny Pope Francis as the legitimate pope may not be heretics they are in schism. My pastor said they don't realize the doctrinal errors of MDM, therefore, they aren't heretics. (It was a relief to hear that.) Nevertheless, they are treading on thin ice. Anyone still trying to discern the Truth, as defined on the Second Coming website, should read the entire article on heresies. Here is one pertinent example to reflect on seriously:
ReplyDeleteMontanism (Late 2nd Century)
"Montanus began his career innocently enough through preaching a return to penance and fervor. His movement also emphasized the continuance of miraculous gifts, such as speaking in tongues and prophecy. However, he also claimed that his teachings were above those of the Church, and soon he began to teach Christ’s imminent return in his home town in Phrygia. There were also statements that Montanus himself either was, or at least specially spoke for, the Paraclete that Jesus had promised would come (in reality, the Holy Spirit)." http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-great-heresies
Three points: #1. Marie Divine Mercy has claimed her teachings are above those of the Church just like Montanus before her. She has said there is no point in bothering with submitting her messages to the Church for evaluation because time is too short.The Church is too slow. #2. Like Montanus, she is forecasting Christ's imminent return. #3. She claims to have messages from the Holy Spirit. Apostles of MDM who have read her hundreds of messages, know well this is all true.
I wonder if this Fr. Francis Elsinger is the same priest associated with Julia Kim the fake visionary from Hong Kong who was excommunicated by her bishop. Is so he seems to have a penchant for false prophets.
ReplyDelete“The keys of Rome will now be handed back to God, the Almighty Father.” Alleged words of Jesus Christ to Marie Divine Mercy, June 6, 2011
ReplyDeleteCatechism no.553 -“Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."THE “POWER OF THE KEYS” DESIGNATES AUTHORITY TO GOVERN the house of God, which is the Church...The power to "bind and loose" connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church... in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.”
Comment to apostles of MDM: How can any member of the faithful possibly remain in good standing with her Saviour and conceive that Jesus could possibly renege on and contradict the very WORD He spoke in Sacred Scripture? This statement alone testifies to demonic activity. One cannot simultaneously be faithful to Christ’s teachings and believe MDM. The two points of view are irreconcilable. Read the declaration made by Bl. John Paul II where he declared the teachings in the catechism to be a “sure norm.” Moreover take special note of the opening line where he authoritatively stated that the Deposit of Faith is entrusted to the Church not for a while but for “every age.”
Take care to read the scriptural quotations the Pope gave to support his writing. How different was this servant of God to the self proclaimed prophet MDM who said there is no need. (Ap.28/13) Not only is there no need but with unbridled pomposity, she repudiated anyone quoting scripture as ‘unauthorized’ by God as if truth, accuracy and citation of sources no longer matters. Doubtless, ‘time is too short’ to ‘waste.’ Yet again, MDM presumes her authority supersedes the Pope and the Word of God. Can such a defense be Christian? “Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope.” 1Peter 3:15
Blessed John Paul II, Fidei Depositum, Apostolic Constitution, 1992
ReplyDelete“Guarding the Deposit of Faith is the Mission Which the Lord Entrusted to his Church, and which she fulfills in every age.”
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved ... by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church's faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church́s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. May it serve the renewal to which the Holy Spirit ceaselessly calls the Church of God, the Body of Christ, on her pilgrimage to the undiminished light of the Kingdom!
The approval and publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to the Holy Catholic Church ...the service, that is, of supporting and confirming the faith of all the Lord Jesus' disciples (Lk 22:32), as well as of strengthening the bonds of unity in the same apostolic faith.
Therefore, I ask all the Church's Pastors and the Christian faithful to receive this catechism in a spirit of communion and to use it assiduously in fulfilling their mission of proclaiming the faith and calling people to the Gospel life. This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine... It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (Eph 3:8)... The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (1 Pet 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.” Bl. John Paul II, Fidei Depositum, Apostolic Constitution, 1992
“Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I [Jesus] have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.” Luke 22:31-32
“I [Paul] became a minister by the gift of God’s grace that was granted me in accord with the exercise of His power. . . this grace was given, to preach ... the inscrutable riches of Christ and to bring to light for all what is the plan of the mystery hidden from ages past in God.” Ephesians3:7-9
In conclusion, MDM has left no wiggle room for Catholics to remain faithful to Our Lord and attribute the movement of MDM as a divinely inspired call.
It pains me to see that Catholics are up against each other, the traditional Catholics and the liberal minded are now locked up in a heated argument, just like the old days of the apostles, they find themselves now in the same quandary. The latest comments of the admin and Pocket Sketch are worthy of attention. There were some good points that they had illustrated very well in their comments against MDM and most of it was base in biblical knowledge they learned from the Scripture and the CCC.
ReplyDeleteLike for example:
(Pocket Sketch, April 29, 2013 at 5:06 P.M) “There was a disciple in Damascus named Ananias, and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias”.. Get up and go…” Saul, my brother, the Lord has sent me… that you may regain your sight and be filled with the HOLY SPIRIT.” He got up and was baptized. “ACTS 9:10-19; “He/ she, further explained, note that Jesus had Paul’s vocation confirmed by the “laying on of hands.” Jesus did not act independently of His Church but in coordination with it. Was St. Paul filled with the Holy Spirit on the road to Damascus or later through the laying on of hands and baptism he received the Holy Spirit?” This question is valid and I may accept its face value what the author wishes to convey but I find this contention a little bit short in digging the deeper meaning of the given verse. To go deeper, it should be noted that Ananias had a private vision and instruction received from the Lord. Ananias reaction at first was somewhat reluctant and even tried to reason out with the Lord, that this man, referring to Saul,” has only come here because he holds a warrant from the chief priest to arrest everybody who invokes your name. “The Lord replied, you must go all the same, because this man is my chosen instrument to bring my name before the pagans and the pagan kings and before the people of Israel…Then Ananias went. He entered the house, and at once laid his hands on Saul…so that you may recover your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” ”Here it is very clear that Ananias acted independently without first the approval of the Apostles, all upon the instruction of the Lord. He realized the urgency of the divine message and without hesitation he immediately went to Saul without proper coordination before the apostles. Another point, God reveals something new through a prophet by ordering the prophet to say something to a particular person or group. That is, new revelation is transmitted orally. Certainly, these revelations were eventually written down, but often not until much later. Following the stand of our liberal brothers in Christ, we have to reject the new revelation until it is written down. And in many cases, waiting until the prophecy was written down would be much too late. Look specifically at the example in (2 Chronicles 11:2-4), for example. If Rehoboam had ignored the prophet, since 2 Chronicles hadn’t been written yet, he’d have gone into battle in direct disobedience against God.”But the word of Yahweh came to Shemaiah the man of God, say this to Rehoboam son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all the Israelites in Judah and Benjamin, “ Yahweh says this: Do not set out to fight your brothers; let everyone go home, for what has happened is my doing.” Ananias must have known this event that is why without hesitation he proceeded immediately after Jesus explained to him that the man Saul was chosen to be his instrument to the pagans. Ananias has not erred when he follows the prescription of Peter and the Apostles…”Obedience to God comes before obedience to men.” (Acts5:29) Note: (to be cont’d)
(Continuation)
ReplyDelete“For the record, my parish priest has talked with a couple of MDM apostles and came away so shaken up by the encounter he is convinced there is a diabolical presence.” This is also a valid instruction especially when it comes from a priest. The priest of our time is like the man of God, in the same manner priesthood in the O.T (2 Chronicles 30:16) and the disciple of the N.T but the question is, are they not prone of making mistakes? In Hosea 4:4-5; it was written;”But let no man denounce, no man rebuke; it is you priest, that I denounce. Day and night you stumble along, In (1Kings 13; 11-22); (The man of God and prophet) Is a classic example that a man of God (priest) was prone to making mistakes In that sense the priest who made that assessment of MDM may prove wrong and may not be in the best position to judge the apostolic mission propagated by MDM ; the adoration of the Holy Eucharist, the habitual practice visiting the confessional house, doing penance, almsgiving, forgiveness, love thy neighbor, recital daily of the Divine Mercy chaplet for the poor souls in purgatory and the daily meditation of the Holy Rosary that peace may come our way and of the whole world ( the best weapon against heresy). The Rosary will save us from hell since we have appealed to the Mother of God. Are these the signs of diabolical manifestation? I believe not! Jesus made this very clear in (Mk.9:38-40); “John said to him, Master, we saw a man not one of us casting out devils in your name: and because he was not one of us we tried to stop him. But Jesus said . “You must not stop him; no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to speak evil of me. Anyone who is not against us is for us,” Jesus, also explicitly narrated this in (Mk.3;22-26); “The scribes who had come down from Jerusalem were saying, Beelzebul is in him and, it is through the prince of the devils that he cast devils out…How can Satan cast out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot last… Now if Satan rebelled against himself and is divided, he cannot stand either- it is the end of him.”
In (Acts 5:38-39); Gamaliel’s advice is accepted by Sanhedrin. “What I suggest, therefore, is that you leave these men alone and let them go, If this enterprise, this movement of theirs, is of human origin it will break up of its own accord, but if does in fact come from God you will not only be unable to destroy them, but you might find yourselves fighting against God.” Instead of attacking each other I humbly suggest that we submit to the formula of Gamaliel’s intervention and wait to the unfolding of events ,after all the Catholic Church is always very slow to declare a miracle or message authentic.
Jesus King of Mercy I trust in you!
Ave Maria!
Your first statement is fallacious. I am not against traditional or liberal minded Catholics and am not engaging in any type of "heated argument". It doesn't seem that other MDM detractors are either. In all confidence and trust in Him, I am simply stating that the MDM messages are false. Whatever one's leaning, whether traditional or liberal, one's preference should not take precedence over following the Magisterium of the church and remaining loyal to her. Jesus Himself said, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I shall build my church, and THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT".
DeleteAlso, obedience to ecclesiastical authority always comes before obedience to private revelation. In all approved apparitions, Mary and Jesus approved of seers who would defer to those who were in authority over them. In Jesus' words, He Himself put them in charge. Therefore, to obey a religious authority is to obey Jesus.
Thank you, Anonymous, May 5, 5:53pm. for your thoughtful comments and taking the time to read why Love and I are not a convinced MDM. is a prophet of the Lord.
ReplyDeleteAs for your scriptural analysis while interesting, it is misguided because you use it to defend someone who is acting outside of Holy Mother Church and not from within. Yes, it is incontestable, Ananias was acting under directions he received directly from Jesus. Even so, through the laying on of hands, Jesus healed Paul of his blindness as a sign that it was indeed Him. Both Paul and Ananias had their proof they were not acting under the influence of an over excited imagination or worse. In contrast, MDM has no miracles to authenticate her visions.
To continue with Acts, Ananias was a Christian in good standing with the early Christian community; moreover, he was prepared to risk his very life in order to obey the direction he received from Christ. After all, Saul of Tarsus had captured and brought many Christians to their death. In consequence, did Ananias play it safe; remain home and send out his servants to find Paul? No, he went in person. On the other hand, we have a seer who is content to remain safe in the shadows of anonymity and to send out her apostles to face public ridicule and censure. She risks nothing. As for comparing MDM to an O.T. prophet, one need look no further than the steadfast courage of the prophet Elisha who was forced into exile for fear of his life. How many times does one have to repeat this salient point? MDM fears persecution. This is not in the tradition of the great prophets and martyrs in either the Jewish or the Christian tradition. If God didn’t spare His only Son what makes MDM the exception? She is a mother, her defenders reply. Asia Bibi, a Christian mother of five children lingers in prison today under the death sentence in Pakistan for declaring Jesus is her Saviour to a hostile group of Moslem women. Have Catholics devoted to MDM forgotten the martyrdom of Sts. Perpetua and Felicity who were both mothers? Anyone who buys the excuse from MDM needs to seriously give that question alone the careful reflection it deserves. Otherwise, it is an injustice to all the mothers throughout the ages who have been separated from their children for the sake of the kingdom. Her anonymity is no light matter.
Finally, never forget that because of her/his anonymity MDM can pretend to be Catholic; pretend to be a woman; pretend to be a mother. This person may be a group of persons promoting their own agenda which is the destruction of the Catholic Church and thousands of followers are allowing their hearts and minds to be molded like putty in their hands.
continued response to Anonymous, May 5...
ReplyDeleteWe return to St. Paul and move on to Acts 15. We learn that Paul was welcomed by the leaders of the Church in Jerusalem when he went there to end a heated debate. This fact again confirms that the vision of Ananias received from Our Lord was legitimate. Of course, God is free to act outside His Church but a Catholic, which MDM professes to be, is not allowed to act outside of Church laws and precepts. This is the case with MDM. She has refused to come forward into the light of day and present herself to proper authority as did St. Paul. Anonymous, take note how there was much dispute over the question of circumcision for newly converted Gentiles but when Peter, the first pope, stood up and spoke the matter was settled. No more room for debate. Peter had spoken. There is no doubt that Paul, who was a well educated man of his day, recognized the authority of Peter who was but a simple, uneducated fisherman. He debated with Peter, even went so far as to rebuke him but he never questioned his authority as the holder of the keys of the kingdom which had been entrusted to his care alone. St. Paul could have said his mission to the Gentiles was too important to delay; instead, he went on a long journey to Jerusalem to end the debate once and for all.
Is MDM greater than St. Paul? Does she care to end this controversy and division she has introduced into the bosom of Holy Mother Church like a viper? No. Families, friends, prayer groups and parishioners are divided over the authenticity of her writings but she shows no mercy. She is selfishly acting to protect her own interest which is to maintain full control of her messages and no one, let alone the Church, can decide their authenticity. Why challenge the obvious? MDM is not receiving messages from Jesus; her voice comes from another who impersonates Jesus. How can we be so sure, you wonder? The spirit of rebellion and disobedience is the hallmark signature of Lucifer. This rock has proven to be a stumbling block under whose weight MDM is crushed. Her words are dust. They will not endure forever, for everything must crumble that is not grounded on the one corner stone which is Christ Jesus.
“We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.”(1 John 4:6)
“"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to His disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but do not practice.” Mat.23:1-3
Looks like MDM is not pleased with Catholics who are prepared to defend their faith, their families and the honor of Pope Francis rather than follow her leadership into schism. The hatred we have witnessed previously on the warning second coming website has reached a boiling point. These comments are incendiary. Proceed with caution.
ReplyDelete“TO THOSE of you who claim to SPEAK with great knowledge of Me and then spit with a cursed tongue AGAINST MY PROPHET– know this. Your faith will not save you when you curse the Word of God. Your self-proclaimed love of God is meaningless when you judge one of His children before Him. You are cutting the umbilical cord, which binds you to My Father, when you show disrespect, anger and hatred towards Me. When you spit at Me, YOU WILL BECOME BLIND and will never see again. When you utter words of hatred, YOUR TONGUE WILL BE CUT OUT. When you stand up and declare to all your self-proclaimed knowledge of God, you will fall with YOUR LEGS CUT FROM UNDER YOU. When you deem My prophet to be evil, YOU WILL HAVE NO LIFE. {emphasis and bold added}
My Word will never die; it will live for eternity. It will trample on those sinners who try to defy the Mercy of God, through these Messages.” It was the Sin of Pride Which Caused Lucifer to be Cut Off and Thrown Into the Abyss, [Jesus] to Marie Divine Mercy, May, 2013
Response to Marie Divine Mercy:
“Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!" (Luke17:1) Catechism no.2287
“Bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.” Luke 6:28
PocketSketch, if you are on Facebook, please "Like" the page "Maria Divine Mercy - True or False?"
ReplyDeleteYour knowledgeable insights would be a valuable addition.
Thank you for your reply PocketSketch, I understand. In that case, can we have your permission to copy and post some of your amazing insights on the Facebook page?
DeleteThat locutions website is very interesting because it is diametrically opposed to what MDM is saying. One way or the other the Bible indicates there will be an apostasy in the church in end times. Given the timing of the 70 weeks of Daniel we are at that time. Israel is surrounded by enemies and war looks imminent. Lets see if what MDM is saying comes to pass. My gut tells me the messages are real. But what do I know. If they are real we should look to a big change, something that would draw people away from Christianity. Some sort of discovery. Anyone looking at what Pope Francis has done so far would have to say he is a holly and good man. This is one of the only times in history that we have 2 popes alive at the same time. I hope nothing happens but the sign of the times are every where. Follow Jesus and no one else.
ReplyDeleteHere is a testimonial from a Polish woman who was saved from MDM. She has given permission to publicly post her story:
ReplyDelete"My adventure with MDM messages started by accident. I was a nominal Catholic my whole life, but when my son was born I wanted it to change.
"I come from a Catholic family, so after my son was born I wanted to have him baptised - which I did when he was eight months old. This new, rather forced, encounter with the Church brought about by the situation made me think again about my faith. Unfortunately, my return to my faith was more painful than it would seem at first. They say that curiosity is the first step to hell, and I took that step out of curiosity when I came across MDM messages.
"They seemed beautiful at first glance, though there was something in them that made me feel afraid. As I kept reading them, my psychological condition started to deteriorate. I started feeling low, I kept imagining the end of the world, and I cried a lot because I felt sorry for my child despite all those beautiful promises that those messages contained. I felt that I was worse than others, that I was a terrible sinner, and only then did I realize how many mistakes I had made in my life. I thought to myself, 'How good it was that I came across MDM messages because thanks to them I converted'. But I was wrong.
"The messages contained numerous Crusade prayers, it was impossible to say them all during one day, least of all to pray the Rosary or the Divine Mercy Chaplet. So at first I didn't pray the Crusade prayers but finally, one day, I downloaded the prayer of the 'Seal of the Living God' and I downloaded available Crusade prayers. I prayed the seal of the living God a few times - maybe five times, and a few Crusade prayers at a time. At first it was very difficult for me; I felt tired, I seemed to be out of breath as if I had just ran in a marathon. (continued below)
(story continued from above)
Delete"I had a strange feeling as if something wanted to enter into me through my forehead... I know this sounds funny but this is what it felt like. I also prayed the Rosary and the Divine Mercy chaplet but with so much fear that the slightest noise would set me off. In addition to that, there were dreams, and some of them were not pretty at all.
"I know we should not believe in dreams, but they made me think. My first dream was like this: I was standing, surrounded by darkness, on one side I felt the power of good, and on the other side - the evil, and then someone started pulling me from both sides - as if someone fought over me which way I should be pulled. Then I turned to the evil side and I said, 'Let go of me, I believe in God!' and it let go of me and the dream was over. I thought to myself, 'That is great, it is probably the devil who is angry because I am reading MDM messages and I am a soldier of God!'
"My joy lasted till I had the next dream. I dreamt of the cross on fire, and something wanted to pull my child from my arms. I was petrified, but still it didn't really make me think. But the third dream did. I dreamt of my deceased father who was very angry with me. He and my mom yelled at me, they accused me of being in the cult - they told me to confess to it, but I just kept denying it. I woke up and I could not stop crying...
"That same day I got a message from a woman who was a complete stranger to me. She found out that I was reading MDM messages, and she warned me against them. We talked for a long time and after that I threw away the seal and I stopped praying the Crusade prayers, I started praying the Rosary and the Divine Mercy Chaplet. These prayers soothed me; I no longer felt afraid. I felt peace for quite some time but whenever I had anything to do with the subject of MDM something bad would start to happen. Three times precisely at 3.15 am (I know because I checked the time) I was awakened by a terrible stench of something burnt.
"The first time it was really unbearable, the second it was not as bad, it seemed that something stinking was lying next to me, the third time I felt bad stench coming from my child's bed. After the first night I also found I had bruises on my right knee in the shape of a hand. I thought it could be mine son's hand, but his fingers are tiny so it could not be him.
"And there was a night, not so long ago, around 4 a.m. my son woke me up, as he usually does, so I took him to my bed and laid him next to me. After five seconds I closed my eyes and I heard the hissing sound and I felt a bump on my head, and this bump seemed to have gone right through me with this hissing sound. I cannot explain what it felt like, it was like this invisible bump on my head, and I could not sleep till morning.
"I know that there are more people who have had similar experiences. Maybe it'd be good to talk about it."
(J*****, Poland)
PocketSketch, we would love to hear your feedback on this story ~~Lovey
Many thanks to the Polish mother who wrote this exceptional testimony. It confirms that the shenanigans issuing forth from the W2C website are anything but divinely inspired. Let us recall the many exhortations by MDM to keep an open mind and to suspend all critical thinking while reading “her” messages. Let it be stated unequivocally that such directions are ploys of cult leaders who seek to gain portals into the hearts and minds of their followers for the purpose of manipulating them.
ReplyDeleteJesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light. To follow the Jesus of MDM is take a detour to destruction; to exchange the truth for a lie and to cloak oneself with the darkness of the prince of darkness who triumphs wherever there is disobedience and disunity.
Great work, Lovey and may the Polish mother be blessed abundantly for sharing her experience.
It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him." (Romans 8:28)
Well,... to all of you who know more than God, who are the best theologians, and who have such a developed sense of discernment, you are deluded :) Perhaps you should all take a look at the Pope's recent homily from Wednesday in Rome where he cites the Gospel of Mark 9 vs 38-40 to support his punch-line that Atheists and Catholics should "do good" as a means of meeting on common ground. For those of you who study scripture you will know that Jesus was replying to John who had advised Our Lord that that he 'tried to stop a man who was driving out demons in the name of Jesus'. Jesus replied that 'You must not stop him: no one who works a miracle in my name is likely to speak evil of me. Anyone who is not against us is for us'.
ReplyDeleteChrist was not saying Atheists and Catholics should "do good" as a means of meeting on common ground. In fact Pope Francis has used this scripture 'out of context' at the very least. Perhaps Maria Divine Mercy IS the last prophet prior to The WARNING which will coincide with The WARNING which will coincide with the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
You said, "Well,... to all of you who know more than God, who are the best theologians, and who have such a developed sense of discernment, you are deluded :)"
DeleteActually, it's not because I myself "know more than God", or that I am "the best theologian." It's because People like Dr. Karl Keating (founder of Catholic Answers), Dr. Mark Miravalle (Professor of Theology and Mariology at Franciscan University in Ohio), Jimmy Aiken (Catholic Journalist for the The National Catholic Register), respected priests who have written against MDM such as Fr. Owen Gorman, Fr. Angel Sotelo, Fr. John Hogan, Fr. John Abberton, Fr. John Corrigan (and many others), the entire Conference of Slovakian Bishops, the Bishop of Salzburg, the Bishop of Melbourne, Australia, and many other experts have already written and/or spoken out AGAINST the Maria Divine Mercy messages as false, against Catholic teaching, and even HERETICAL.
I trust that Jesus put these learned people in place to help guide us to truth. I trust them more than an anonymous, self-proclaimed agnostic, almost atheistic, fallen away Catholic, high-flying businesswoman who puts out messages contrary to Catholic teachings.
Who do YOU trust?
(It's rather disturbing that you would put a smiley face after an insult! Who is the author of that type of sarcastic behavior?)
your judgement is rediculous. you are judging Maria as a self-proclaimed agnostic, and "almost atheist" an exagerated lie! earlier comments say she was almost agnostic, but you exagerated it! look, who can tell God who to choose? This is so much a replay of the first time Jesus walked the earth, he was judged for eating with tax collectors! then you want to make a point over a smily face "after an insult"???? your list of experts does not impress me a bit.
DeleteAnonymous of June 16 at 3:18, You are correct. Some of what I said about her isn't accurate. I was going by my memory of her audio interview. She did not say "almost atheist". I thank you for correcting me, so here I will post the exact words, verbatim, of MARIA DIVINE MERCY HERSELF in an audio interview she did in October of 2011.
DeleteSpeaking about the time of her very first vision, she says, "I was a lapsed Catholic, I'd no real interest in religion, in fact, I could honestly say I was heading toward being agnostic...um...hadn't received sacraments for years including confession, had no interest, quite frankly, because my life was different...eh...far removed from going to church or going to mass. I was a high flyer businesswoman."
I appreciate the correction and I might make this direct MDM quote a future headline article on this blog.
By the way...are you really comparing Maria Divine Mercy to Jesus?
Reply to Anon May 27 @5:27
DeleteYour view of the Pope is jaundiced. If you have been reading M-DM it is understandable why you can no longer hear the Supreme Universal Pontiff without suspicion. I can remember a time when I could have fallen for the same tripe too. After all the confusion and abrupt liturgical changes after Vatican II, I was ashamed to be a Catholic. Not anymore.
The new Catechism of the Catholic Church was a great gift from JPII to anyone who is looking for straight answers and the sure norm of Catholic doctrine. Looking for the straight and narrow path to heaven or would you prefer to the wide path that leads to destruction? This is the "Book of Truth." This is what all Catholics are required to believe.
No one here is judging the final destination of anyone; we are simply looking at the preaching from the W2C site and pointing to the overwhelming body of messages which directly conflict with Catholicism. The fact that many of the faithful have been mesmerized by this false prophet, one who reacts to measured,fraternal correction as if we are cursing God Himself, is disturbing.
In a followup, I will post the definitions on 1. incredulity 2. heresy, 3. apostasy and 4.schism. These points should bring some clarity forward.
“INCREDULITY is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.”
Delete"HERESY is the OBSTINATE post-baptismal DENIAL of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an OBSTINATE DOUBT concerning the same.”
“APOSTASY is the total repudiation of the Christian faith.”
“SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him." (Canon Law 751) source: catechism #2089
The early Church Father, St. Cyprian gave this warning:
“Against such people the Lord cries out; from these He restrains and recalls His wandering people saying: 'HEARKEN NOT TO THE WORDS OF FALSE PROPHETS, since the visions of their hearts frustrate them. THEY SPEAK, BUT NOT FROM THE MOUTH OF THE LORD...I have not spoken to them, yet they have prophesied...Being born through a lie they do not obtain the promises of truth; begotten of perfidy {betrayal, treachery, infidelity} they lose the grace of faith. They cannot arrive at the reward of peace who have broken the peace of the Lord by THE MADNESS OF DISCORD.” St. Cyprian on the Unity of the Catholic Church, #11
Slandering Pope is doing good? That is what Maria Divine Mercy followers are doing.
ReplyDeleteImportant fact: do not judge messages by what followers are "claimed" to be doing. That is like saying the preists who mollested minors represent the church! But we know that there is truth about the rougue priests. I do not believe the claims about followers of MDM. It should go without saying, such claims are about as sound as claims a person is a witch.
DeleteAnonymous of June 16 at 3:22: They aren't "claimed" to be slandering the pope. If you read comments on the Facebook Page run by the Maria Divine Mercy organization, they openly ARE slandering the pope. The followers write comments saying terrible things about him. Looking at their comments, they nitpick every single nuance of his every word, action, and even clothing.
DeleteThis has NOTHING do with priests who abused children...what a cheap and irrelevant shot.
MDM herself has said that the pope after Pope Benedict, meaning Pope Francis, is the "imposter", the "false prophet", the "anti-christ", the thief who "stole the seat of Peter" and other such heresy. Please read your catechism. To openly say, believe, and act upon such statements puts one in a state of schism with the church leading to automatic excommunication. (Canon Law 751)
Confession will always be available to those who have done this, so never fear. Jesus reaches out to all of you.
you just said "the followers write comments": like I said do not judge the messages themselves based on anything the followers are said to be saying or doing. my reference to the rogue priests was not meant as a cheap or irrelevant shot. I'm saying a priest does not always represent the church, just like the "followers" of MDM do not always represent the messages. I have been a faithful church goer my entire life and love the church. There is a big debate over the 1000 year period, which is criticized as millenianism. I admit to not be studied in whatever millenianism is but in my bible in the book of revelations there is a chapter which speaks of 1000 years in which the beast will be chained up and where peace will exist on earth. I therefore can not agree with any criticism against the prophecy of 1000 years. To me this fits right in with what was sketched out in the book of revelations!
DeleteAnonymous of June 16 at 4:57, millenarianism is just one of the contradictions to Catholic doctrine. There are multitudinous other contradictions. Here are three starting with the first few. I will post the MDM message, and the reason it is wrong. You can counterpoint with solid reasons why these AREN'T contradictory to Catholic beliefs:
DeleteOn Nov. 8, 2010 The "virgin mary" said, BEGIN QUOTE, "Never forget, God loves all His children, including those sinners who have offended Him. Beg for Mercy for each and every one of you. THE HOLY FAMILY WILL REUNITE. (Pause…. at that point I was surprised, so I asked Our Lady, “Have I got this part right?” She smiled gently and continued…)" END QUOTE
Catholic rebuttal: Since Our Lady’s Assumption into heaven, the Holy Family is united eternally in heaven. They are not separated, so why would they need to "REUNITE"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Nov. 13, 2010 "jesus" said,BEGIN QUOTE, "I Am suffering to such an extent that the Wounds inflicted upon Me at My terrible Crucifixion, to which I succumbed, ARE OPENING ONCE AGAIN AND FESTERING, leaving Me in the utmost painful agony of Body, Soul and Divinity. Yet I will never give up loving all of you." END QUOTE
Catholic rebuttal: The body of Our Lord can never suffer corruption, such as festering. This is also blasphemy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On November 21, 2010 Jesus said, BEGIN QUOTE "All paths lead to God, the creator of mankind." END QUOTE
Catholic rebuttal: The real Jesus actually said ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE CAN COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." By definition "all paths" include animism, spiritualism, witchcraft, Marxism, occultism, buddhism, etc. MDM's "jesus" tells us they all lead to God! Impossible.
I think these three are a good start.
Yes, Lovey. M-DM apostles should have an answer to contradictions you have pointed out. Given the volume of messages from her there are many more. I point out this one yet again because it is important.
DeleteThe following quotation from W2C website in the “alleged words” of our Bl. Mother, posted Ap.24/13: “My Son now prepares you for HIS SECOND COMING . . . This final plan of salvation will be similar to His first coming, but with one difference. This time, HE WILL NOT COME AS MAN IN THE FLESH.”
What does Sacred Scripture say about the Second Coming of Jesus? Take careful not who is the deceiver and the antichrist.
“For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.” 2 John 7
The cruel irony is these words have been attributed to the Mother of God who gave birth to the Word Incarnate. I address this question to all Catholics with Marian devotion, how could you fail to realize this insult? Is it too hard for you to countenance the possibility that it is not the Pope who is ‘laughing and sneering’ but the great deceiver who is perpetrating this hoax on you. (Read W2C, March 8,/13)
I would like to clarify a point made by ANONYMOUS 24, 2013 at 2:19 PM.
ReplyDeleteYour statement that we have 2 popes is incorrect. We have a retired pope who by doing so has given up the Keys of Peter. He is no longer the pope who leads the Church rather He is now a pope emeritus. Nor does he have the charism of infallibility. That belongs to Pope Francis the only official pope sitting on the chair of Peter and who alone holds the Keys. So quit trying to insinuate something that is not there. Plus your gut feeling is no criteria for discernment. MDM has been proven to be a fraud over and over again. What part of that don’t you understand?
NOTICE TO MDM FOLLOWERS: I will not publish your comment if it includes a vague statement that says, just like Dr. Kelly Bowring, "I have read the MDM messages and do not see any contradictions/fraud/heresy/ etc."
ReplyDeleteWhat I DO want to see is an MDM believer defend it by SPECIFICALLY addressing the contradictions, heresies, or anti-Catholic statements by MDM that the theologians, priests, and bishops have pointed out in order to warn people to stay away.
Sorry, Lovey but you are not going to have any MDM apostle come forward who can answer the errors. They skim over what they can't make sense of and see only what they want to see. It is interesting to not the publisher of "The Book of Truth" is called Coma Books. All know how defenseless a comatose patient is but then maybe that is the condition MDM likes her readers to be in: helpless, unresponsive, completely at her mercy. Like someone in a coma on a feeding tube she can feed them whatever she wants or suggest to them whatever she wants. Dare one even suggest she was alluding to the original horror story called "Coma" by Robin Cook? Use your own imagination and figure out why MDM has selected such a name for her independent publishing firm.
ReplyDeleteLovey,June 8 2013, at 2:38 Am
ReplyDelete"What I DO want to see is an MDM believer defend it by SPECIFICALLY addressing the contradictions, heresies, or anti-Catholic statements by MDM that the theologians, priests, and bishops have pointed out in order to warn people to stay away." This very statement is full of hypocrisy!!!
I have sent one(May 28,2013)on this blog site to address one of the issue you have found in contrast of your knowledge in the scriptures but it never find equal space to have it publish. I can only think that your goal is not to find the truth but to demoralize (pun intended)those who is against your view and belief. And by doing to be selective i likened your intention of the Pharisee of the old days carefully selecting their arguments against the new teaching of our Lord Jesus to pin Him down against the Law.
It is of great joy to praise God through His word with good intention to know the truth.
Ave Maria!
Anonymous of June 14 at 2:40, If indeed you did directly address the specific heresies in the MDM messages and I missed it, I offer my sincere apologies. I receive a lot of "Anonymous" comments so I don't know to which comments you refer. I do not publish any comments that denigrate the pope, cardinals or bishops. I also don't further propagate theories from sources I consider less than forthright. Many of those unpublished anonymous comments were such as these.
ReplyDeleteLet's begin again. We will start with some direct contradictions to Catholic teachings. I will post the MDM message, and the reason it is wrong. You can counterpoint. These are just the first few:
On Nov. 8, 2010 The "virgin mary" said, "Never forget, God loves all His children, including those sinners who have offended Him. Beg for Mercy for each and every one of you. THE HOLY FAMILY WILL REUNITE. (Pause…. at that point I was surprised, so I asked Our Lady, “Have I got this part right?” She smiled gently and continued…)"
Catholic rebuttal: Since Our Lady’s Assumption into heaven, the Holy Family is united eternally in heaven. They are not separated, so why would they need to "REUNITE"?
On Nov. 13, 2010 "jesus" said, "I Am suffering to such an extent that the Wounds inflicted upon Me at My terrible Crucifixion, to which I succumbed, ARE OPENING ONCE AGAIN AND FESTERING, leaving Me in the utmost painful agony of Body, Soul and Divinity. Yet I will never give up loving all of you."
Catholic rebuttal: The body of Our Lord can never suffer corruption, such as festering. This is also blasphemy.
On November 21, 2010 Jesus said, "All paths lead to God, the creator of mankind."
Catholic rebuttal: The real Jesus actually said ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE CAN COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." By definition "all paths" include animism, spiritualism, witchcraft, Marxism, occultism, buddhism, etc. MDM's "jesus" tells us they all lead to God! Impossible.
I think these three are a good start.
I suggest all to pay attention to the gospel for today 6-16-13, the one where Jesus is questioned for allowing a sinful woman to annoint his feet. He tells how the one who has been forgiven much will love him more and the one who has been forgiven less will love him less. Perhaps all you scholars were judged to love him less so you were passed over when He chose this woman to receive his final messages to prepare mankind for his second coming. She is making an effort to prepare millions to repent and what are you doing? You feel it is your mission to use your intellectual gifts to judge and condemn her! Leave her alone!!!
ReplyDeleteI have not "condemned" Maria Divine Mercy herself. What I HAVE done is pointed out the multitudinous doctrinal errors in the messages she and her sizeable organization put out.I know nothing about her except what she said about herself in her October 2011 interview.
DeleteThere is quite a difference between condemning a person, as in today's gospel, and pointing out serious errors in what they're saying.
I don't know much about MDM herself at all, however, I DO know that many great saints were afraid of being deluded by the devil in disguise. St. Teresa of Avila, when asked about this, said she was terrified about the possibility every day! If this great saint could be terrified of being fooled by Satan in disguise, then any of us ordinary people could suffer a worse deception.
This is why it is of utmost importance to obey the hierarchical authority of the church before rushing to put out messages that could be coming from the evil one. MDM is obeying NO authority and continuing to put out the messages.
These messages ask Catholics to reject the present pope as the imposter. This puts souls into a state of schism from the church. This is really dangerous!
Jesus has never contradicted the teachings of His church because He IS the church.
Notice to commenters: I will not publish your comment if it encourages any type belief in these heretical messages,spreads unproven conspiracy theories, or contains any type of personal insult.
DeleteReply to Anon June 16 @ 3:37
Delete“And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.” Isaiah 53:9
What difference does it make if the messages of M-DM contain errors, contradictions, and the like? This is the question of the day for M-DM apostles. Their plea: "Leave her alone!"
She claims she is writing under the command of the three persons of the Blessed Trinity and directly inspired by them. In other words, she takes no personal responsibility for any of her “prophesies” or teachings. She is simply the obedient secretary of the LORD. Therefore, readers of the W2C website or “The Book of Truth” have a guarantee from heaven that this "last, great prophet of the end times" will never speak a single error. It follows that Jesus of the Gospels will be the same one speaking to Marie -DM. Further to this extraordinary claim, she has been given authorization from God not to bring these heavenly messages to the attention of proper ecclesiastical authority. In other words, permission to circumvent His Church; ignore His Bride; calumniate His visible head on earth.
One would think such commands would suffice but no. Not only is Marie -DM not to obey the Church but all the faithful are to read and abide by these messages without question too. In point of fact, the messages have threatened repeatedly, all who have dared disobey these commands. Everyone is to show the same respect and reverence for “The Book of Truth” that has heretofore been reserved exclusively for Sacred Scripture. It is worthwhile to note here that it was the Catholic Church who carefully evaluated and “put to the test” all the books which eventually became part of the canon of Sacred Scripture. Even so, the entity controlling M-DM, will not submit to the scrutiny given to the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the letters of Peter, Paul, James and so forth. Do any of the apostles of M-DM have any reservations or doubts at this point? Sad to say, many do not hesitate to put their human faith in M-DM, so confident they remain that the Holy Spirit is at work through her writings.
In order to learn how God worked out His plan of salvation through history and to see if indeed it is possible that God is working through this seer, I offer a single comparison with an uncontested “great prophet” in the book of Exodus. After God had commanded Moses to return to Egypt and chosen him as leader of the Israelites, Moses asked God, “Who am I?” He knew his authority would be questioned by the people, as it had already been questioned forty years before. God replied He would give proof, unlike the entity speaking to M-DM who offers none whatsoever all the while demanding blind obedience. Not satisfied with God’s promise to be with him, Moses persisted and asked God to reveal His name. Was God unreasonable, threatening or angry with His chosen prophet for daring to be so bold? No. In fact, He answered and revealed His name, “I AM who am.”
In conclusion, I do not recognize the voice of the entity who speaks to M-DM. My God is approachable. He offers proof with signs and miracles as a testimony to all His genuine prophets and indeed as He did for His own Son. Why does He leave the Jesus of M-DM hanging in cyberspace with no proof of his existence? As for me, I worship the one true God who does not deceive and delivers on His promises; another I will not serve.
I'm just about done here because I see how you can post whichever comments you choose. I'm affraid of a slight bias on that point.
ReplyDeleteOne last comment about the pope. Yes I have read in the messages that he is not considered the legitimate heir of St Peter. It does not say we should be against him or to pray he dies or anything. It only says to be aware for he will not be a faithful head of Christs church. This makes me uncomfortable. This is not good news for anybody. It is mearly a prophecy, something which will either be proven true or false. If this is true it makes sense to me that he will not take office and immediately make absurd declarations. NO he, like any other false teacher, will first gather support and praise from his people. Then when he has them in his corner he might reveal his secrets. There is no need to discuss this further, just let the prophecy prove itself right or wrong.
Any message that makes you uncomfortable with the Church Jesus founded is clearly from the devil. Any message that repudiates the authority of the Holy Spirit who has the power over His Church Militant in matters of canonical papal elections clearly must be condemned outright. There is no need to prove the prophecy right or wrong, because in the first place it is not a prophecy. It is outright defamation and slander on the person and authority of the Vicar of Christ on earth.
DeleteAny message that makes you uncomfortable with the Church you belong or put you in doubt about its indefectibility can only come from the devil. And when a message directly names a specific Pope to impugn on his authority as having been canonically elected as Pope is no longer prophecy, but simple slander and defamation. In canon law, this is heresy and schism. For you to even consider such a possibility from an scamming false MDM who could not even have the decency to reveal its identity and submit to the authority of church before spreading such messages clearly shows you have been so utterly deceived.
DeleteThe messages don't say in such a kind way as you did that Pope Francis is "not considered the legitimate heir of St. Peter." What they DO say is he is the "imposter", the "false prophet", the thief who "stole the seat of Peter", the false one, etc etc. These are strong words.
ReplyDeleteThe messages do not say to pray for the death of Pope Francis. However, the commenter who said this was referring to numerous Facebook comments wherein MDM followers on the MDM sponsored page actually said they were hoping and praying for his death. I saw the comments. I only wish I copied them so I could paste them here. Perhaps if I come across them I will paste them.
I will continue rejecting these messages because there is NO SIN in doing that if I am following the magisterium of the church. However, the opposite is not true. To openly reject Pope Francis as an imposter or false prophet, etc. is to put oneself into a state of schism which automatically excommunicates one from the Holy Catholic Church. The good news is, if you have already done this, the sacrament you have remaining is the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Jesus is truly Good in His Great and Infinite Mercy!
I really mean this when I say may God bless you. I appreciate your comments on my blog and I can see they are made with the best of intentions. Please pray for me and I will also pray for you.
Anon, June 16 who is a uncomfortable with the messages about Pope Francis on the W2C. You do well to feel "uncomfortable." I am going to post only a few words from the very long message posted March 8, 2013. Please, read it again very carefully.
ReplyDeleteWould Jesus say the following about the Church He governs visibly through His vicar, the Sovereign Pontiff?
"My Body is My Church, but it will not be to Me, Jesus Christ, he {Pope Francis} will pledge his loyalty, for he does not possess any love for Me. His loyalty is to the beast and how he will laugh and sneer at My sacred servants who will support him.
He {Pope Francis} who dares to sit in My Temple, and who has been sent by the evil one, cannot speak the truth, for he does not come from Me. He has been sent to dismantle My Church and tear it up into little pieces before he will spit it out from his vile mouth."
Compare and contrast this with Jesus' prophecy that Peter would betray Him and how gentle and forgiving He was to Peter after the Resurrection. This Jesus of M-DM is not the Son of God but an impostor. Such impostors the faithful were forewarned would come and not to chase after.
pocket sketch: I pray you could understand what I feel reading your words. You conclude by saying Jesus of mdm in not the son of God but an imposter, based on your response to the words you quoted above. First and foremost is that those words are coming from the one who claims to be the one true God, Jesus, the one who died on the cross and rose from the dead. by saying what I quoted above you are risking the most grave sin of all. but the scary part is that you said it based on one paragraph about what he says about pope francis. Assuming He is who he says he is he has insights into Francis that we can not know. He is speaking about him in prophecy about what he will be doing: that he will be loyal to the beast, something which can only be witnessed in days to come. I know it is hard to swallow that evil may (have) infiltrate(d) the vatican and I know God said evil will never prevail against the church, but you have to have a deep understanding to handle these sorts of things. apparantly you do not have such. even if satan were to kill the pope and put on his clothes and (I'm making this up for example) call himself pope how would we react? we might say Jesus was wrong, that evil prevailed, but not so, the church is us, not the pope alone, he is only the head of it, we would remain in christ as priests would continue serving, and we would continue praying, even though this horrific situation was present. I'm just saying Jesus does not contradict himself but you conclude that he is for saying the new pope is not loyal. The fact that my opinion opposes yours should be enough for you to hold back your words to say that this Jesus of mdm is an imposter. as I say you risk blasphemy against the word and will of God, blashpemy against the holy spirit! remember the recent scandal in the church, evil did infiltrate but it did not prevail. it weakened but did not destroy.
DeleteThank you for your heartfelt and sincere reply Anon. June 17,@2:47 PM - I do understand where you are coming from. As a Catholic,I am well aware that Our Lord speaks to whom He chooses when He chooses. It is because I believe God is faithful to His promises that I can not believe that He would break with all of salvation history to renege His promise to be with us always. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ and the foundation rests on the twelve stones of the apostles. The Church you propose would be dead because you think it possible to severe the head from the body. Yes, M-DM has promised you a deep understanding which is exclusive to her followers who read her messages; pray her prayers; post her seal of protection. Beware, dear friend in the Lord, Satan deceives with flattery. You reach for the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge. Sacred Scripture is replete with warnings to test the spirits and to never accept another gospel other than the one we have already received. St. Paul went so far as to say in Galatians that even should an angel descend from heaven to preach "a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let that one be accursed."
DeleteI thank you for your genuine concern for my salvation. However, numerous postings have painstakingly detailed many instances of errors and direct contradictions which deviate from the Word of God, the teachings and the Tradition of the Church which Christ founded. A single error from M-DM, such as the error that Peter established the Church, would be reason enough to discount her authenticity. All scripture is inspired by God therefore it is inerrant. If God is the principal author of "The Book of Truth" why are there so many demonstrable errors?
You say I risk blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and I say you risk severing yourself from the Mystical Body of Christ. Please, forget about all the scandals; forget about all the devious plots and worry about your own salvation. You will be called to give an account for your sins and not the sins of any of the clergy.
Have you no fear of speaking ill of the anointed one of the Lord, Pope Francis? Don't let the perverted writings of a slick businesswoman, who has all the markings of a cult leader, sucker you in. You sound like a very sweet and gentle soul. Don't let her rabble rouse you to throw mud on the Bride of Christ.
Second reply to Anon. June 17, 2013@ 2:47 PM what said, "The fact that my opinion opposes yours should be enough for you to hold back your words to say that this Jesus of mdm is an imposter."
DeleteThank you again for your word of warning. Even so, I don't understand why you think unsubstantiated rumor and gossip from a stranger obliges any member of the faithful to grovel in submission at the feet of M-DM. Yes, it is an opinion that M-DM is an impostor and acting under demonic influence. As she refuses to submit in obedience for evaluation from proper Church authority she has created the situation where every Catholic of the whole world, whether lay person or clergy, can freely determine her validity and come to any conclusion they want: favorable or unfavorable. It would have been wiser to follow protocol; she chose to go public; she has disturbed the faithful; she has many so stirred up in a frenzy of excitement that they are prepared to jump from the barque of Peter into her dinghy. A dinghy which hasn't been tested or proven sea worthy I might add.
As for opinion, it is quite clear when I am making a personal opinion and when I am quoting from authoritative sources which can not be dismissed as mere subjective opinion. There is only one Lord, one Spirit, one Body and one Baptism.(Eph.4:5)
"And therefore IF A MAN REFUSE TO HEAR THE CHURCH let him be considered—so the Lord commands— as a heathen and a publican. (Mat.18:17) It follows that those {who} are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.” Pius XII, ‘On the Mystical Body of Christ’
What good Catholic would dare place their personal opinion above the encyclical of a pope who was teaching with the authority of Christ? It would be beneficial to read the entire work available online at EWTN to cleanse your mind and come to terms with what it means to belong to the Mystical Body of Christ. May I also suggest you pull out the catechism and study what the Church teaches about millenarianism. John Paul II called it the sure norm of truth. Reading W2C is not nurturing your faith; in fact, it is destroying it.
You must choose: either the Jesus of the Gospel or the impostor M-DM proposes as your Master. They are incompatible. They are not one and same. M-DM is founding a new church, 2,000 years after Our Lord and Saviour established His, with disenchanted, traditional Catholics. In 1830 would you have run off to join the church of Joseph Smith? The Church of the Latter Day Saints? He claimed to have received his inspiration from an angel too. He wrote his own book just like M-DM too. You want to be part of a remnant army with M-DM as your leader? Do you really expect Benedict XVI to play a part with this badly written script? Beware of false prophets whose prophecies do not come true. Deut.18:20-22
“We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office. . .
ReplyDelete‘It’ was NOT TO PRIVATE JUDGEMENTS that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.
Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined {instructed, ordered} on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt.28:19 - 20).
Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place, by which we are commanded to be incorporated by Baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to REMAIN UNITED TO CHRIST and TO HIS VICAR, THROUGH WHOM HE HIMSELF in a visible manner GOVERNS the Church on earth.
Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been DIVINELY ESTABLISHED BY CHRIST, nevertheless, refuses to submit to the Church or WITHHOLDS OBEDIENCE FROM THE ROMAN PONTIFF, the Vicar of Christ on earth. . ." {emphasis added by PocketSketch}
a lot of words, not much substance, but I think I see your point: once again you are harping over the "bishop of rome", in the matter of obedience. I say it again, the MDM messages do not say to not be obedient to the roman pontiff. so you should have no problem. however, if in time the roman pontiff loses his senses or faith and declares a new doctrine contrary to Christ, than it will be a different story, wont it?
Deletewhen Jesus came and lived amongst us he cured on a sabbath and was questioned by the religious authority. Just for a minute consider that Jesus can do whatever He wants. God gives us free will but God also has free will.
Regarding scripture: Throughout the gospels Jesus said He would come again, at the assention the disciples were told He will return. Who can say when? Nobody on this earth can say when. He can come whenever the Father decides. Before he comes He can prepare us too. Is there some church teaching or does the pope say Jesus is not allowed to prepare us before he returns? Can anybody tell him he can not prepare us? Can anybody tell him not to cure on the sabbath?
The point of the mdm messages are Christs way of preparing us before his second coming. I have realized that his second coming is an event, a day in the future, perhaps more than one day, but an event. However the time before he comes is an actual period. A period foretold where evil will rise to levels unknown in human history. Once more turning to scripture, the book of revelations a sketch has been layed out. In the sketch it talks about a false prophet and a beast and the anti christ. So let me sum up: the bible and the church teach that Jesus will come again, and the period before he comes mankind will go through something uncomparible to anything else that ever happened. So who is to say that Jesus might not send a final prophet to share daily messages about preparing. In these messages he reveals his plan and will to save millions and even billions.
all your words about church more or less only portrays salvation for the strict followers of the catholic church, those obedient to his holiness... I doubt you have a plan of salvation for the millions of muslims, or hindus, and those who have no religion at all because of living in countries where religion is shunned (communist world for example) sorry but you are too short sighted to comprehend God's will. I'm being harsh here because I'm addressing your pride.
one more thing pocketsketch: what do you have to say about the conversion of St Paul. Jesus chose his 12 apostles, he rose, assended, and sent the Holy Spirit, as He promised. Yet some time later He directly intervened with St Paul. I consider this a lesson of how God can do anyting He wants. He does not have to follow a path that we imagine, approve, believe, or create. I would imagine with your logic for MDM today that you would have a problem with the conversion of St Paul. But he was accepted and became an important part in the early church. It did take a few visions to the early apostles to confirm that Paul was a friend, but soon it is promised that mircales will confirm the truth of the messages. what will you say then?
DeleteAnonymous, I only publish your comment because it is addressed to PocketSketch who should have the opportunity to respond to you. I find it curious and sad that you would say the scriptures don't have much substance, and yet you follow MDM like you should be following the bible. PocketSketch has shown through all comments a deep and clear understanding of Catholic teaching. For you to say "not much substance" reminds me of a kindergarteners with a box of crayons telling Renoir he is painting in the wrong colors.
DeleteLet's see more substantive responses from YOU that actually address the doctrinal offenses MDM commits or your future comments are not going to be published.
Specious analogy, Mr/Ms. Anonymous. God can do whatever He wants? You mean he can lie? Like what your MDM is doing? My goodness, you obviously need to be educated in scripture and Catholic doctrine. Scripture is quite clear when Christ established His Church over which "the gates of hell will not prevail." And rather than having the faith on the Church, you prefer to waste what little you have on a false prophet that tells you the Holy Spirit is inutile for having allowed the devil to infiltrate His Church. I suggest you establish your own religion and don't bother calling yourself a Catholic.
DeleteGive me a break brother. true or false: The gates of hell will not prevail but they sure can infiltrate. How many scandals has the chruch endured? So who can say that the devil would not eventually find a way to get to the pope, imminent of the rise of the beast and antichrist as foretold in the book of revelations. You assume that if he did it would mean that evil prevailed.
DeleteMDM talks about a "remnant army" after the church is no longer performing sacraments or holding to any Catholic teaching and starts a one world religion under the anti-christ. This doesn't sound like a simple scandal...it sounds like the complete obliteration of the Catholic Church. Those faithful to MDM will supposedly be a "remnant army" of Catholics who take their hoard of unconsecrated hosts and perform the mass in their secret stored-up bunkers to uphold the Catholic faith.
DeleteInteresting MDMers worry about Catholic teaching when it will supposedly be no longer, but you don't pay much attention to it now. So far not one MDMer in these comments have addressed the specific doctrinal fallacies of her messages.
lovey, I answered your reponse with a response and you came right back but ignored my point, instead you brought up a whole separate pack of distortions. why didn't you answer me? to continue discussion with you would go on until the second coming! but you bring up a point which I want to point out to others who might read this: the reference to the one world religion, and the "obliteration" of the catholic church are both obviously events to come. thus we may see this happen. I trust if you see it with your own eyes you will believe it then. however you are exagerating in many details how you refer to the MDM words: bunkers?? unconsecrated hosts?? this is where I'm affraid the devil is doing his work... distortion, lies, half truths, division....
DeleteAnonymous, I've been very patient with you. I have asked numerous times that you SPECIFICALLY address the doctrinal issues associated with the MDM messages, and you still haven't done that. As a matter of fact, neither has ANY MDMer who has commented on this blog. All I hear are future predictions of the anti-christ, the beast, the one world religion, etc. etc. And yet NONE of you can explain how it is possible to openly reject the pope and stay Catholic. I listed only three statements of MDM that oppose Catholic teachings and nobody would explain them. Instead, those are ignored and great big theories of future events are discussed. These are the comments I don't publish because they are a waste of time. No seer who is a TRUE seer says anything contrary to the Catholic faith.
DeleteYES...UNCONSECRATED HOSTS. Among the MDMers is a RELIGIOUS SISTER who, in her comments, encourages MDM followers to store up unconsecrated hosts for when all of you go into hiding to be the "Remnant Army" and conduct masses in your secret bunker stored up with hoards of food. Just look at the comments on the MDM-sponsored Facebook page! Look at the horrible things people post about the Pope and the church! The fruits of these messages are abominations!
What are you doing to your children? You're scaring them to death!
Yes Anonymous God can do anything...so what was your point?
ReplyDeletemy point is: if He wants to pick a person to pass messages onto the world to save souls before the second coming He can. If He wants to speak He can speak!
DeleteHi Anon,
ReplyDeleteYou posted.."in the matter of obedience. I say it again, the MDM messages do not say to not be obedient to the roman pontiff. so you should have no problem. however, if in time the roman pontiff loses his senses or faith and declares a new doctrine contrary to Christ, than it will be a different story, wont it?"
Do you deny that the writings of MDM cause the followers to hate the Pope because they are told that he is a "BEAST" a "Deceiver" "Cunning" etc etc? Now, as you have pointed out, he is an innocent man who has done nothing wrong, so would God really condemn an innocent man? And remember He never spoke against Judas until after his crime..."While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled." John 17-12
You posted..."Can anybody tell him he can not prepare us? .....
There is nothing wrong in believing Jesus wants to prepare us for events that are to come. In fact he has told us through St Faustina, Akita and others that this world is due a cleansing because of sin. The difference between those seers and MDM is that they obey the Church, of which Christ is the Head. They have not caused a schism and hatred for the Vicar of Christ.
You posted..."all your words about church more or less only portrays salvation for the strict followers of the catholic church"
Now if you know anything of the Catholic faith Anon you should know that we are urged to pray for all Creeds and athiests, which I and many many others do. We know that God will save those innocent of knowing the truth if they have lived good lives..this is what the Church has always taught.
So the Church does urge prayer for all peoples and does not, like MDM, condemn innocent persons. In fact we are told not to judge at all! Isn't that so? So how come your god urges you followers to judge the Pope?
God Bless
I have been trying to tell everyone that you are missing the point, you are overreacting, and distorting the truth. MDM is NOT telling us to Hate the Pope!!! Now stop it! The words are from Jesus and He is just speaking His mind and much of it is a prophecy of what the pope is up to. You are twisting words and exagerating the truth. I made a comment and my words got twisted too. You wrote he is called a "BEAST" which is completely misquoted and an exagerated assumption. This is why I warn you all. The beast is one entity as sketched out in revelations, and the false prophet is another, and in MDM both are mentioned but the pope is nowhere called the beast. You are misquoting and thus lying. We all know the father of all lies is the devil. If you all do not stop this you are (becoming) the enemies of Christ and His will. Most of your hatred is based on misunderstanding that MDM is telling people to not obey the church, which is a lie. If this were true I would have no part of it. In my life in my heart and in my mind God is first, the church is second. I always believe the church is like the bride of Christ. It hurts me when people turn away from the church. MDM does not want us leaving the church, the devil has decieved you into believing this so that you consider these messages evil and thus you fight agianst them, exactly as the pharisees rejected and called Jesus possessed. Why can't you see it? You persecute Him all over again! on and on every word of yours is twisted, "judge the Pope?" we are not judging the pope, Jesus has witnessed and has spoken about what is coming regarding the pope, we are just informed about the pope.
DeleteReply to Anon.June 18@ 1:10,
DeleteO.K. so you think we exaggerate and misquote our sources about the "Beast." M-DM has called the pope so many names we do have a problem keeping an accurate count of the list. Here is the precise quotation, delivered shortly before the election of Pope Francis, on March 8, 2013. It should be noted,no retraction or apology was made by M-DM, afterwards so she stands firm in her statements:
“His loyalty is to the beast and how he will laugh and sneer at My sacred servants who will support him.” March 8, 2013
Anyone who wants to read the entire characterization of our new Pope can go to the W2C website and decide who is "overreacting."
To Anon. June 17 @10:29 and June 18@1:01,
DeleteYou have stated M-DM has not told people to disobey the church. You have called it a lie and a misunderstanding.Furthermore, no one is to hate the Pope. With so many prophecies pouring forth like ash from a hot volcano it is a challenge to see anything clearly. Here again is a direct quotation from W2C made March 8/13
"ALL YOU CAN DO IS TRUST IN ME {the impostor} AND CONTINUE TO SERVE ME.{the false prophet} WHAT YOU MUST NOT DO IS TO ACCEPT ANY DOCTRINE PRESENTED TO YOU {by Pope Francis} and which you will know, instantly, is not in accordance with My Teachings. You must do what your heart tells you {ingenuous remark: she has cursed opponents repeatedly and just contradicted her aforementioned statement}, but know this.
This period is going to cause you deep pain and the raw grief you will experience when you see how MY CHURCH WILL BE DESECRATED will leave you weeping. But YOU MUST RECOGNIZE THE LIES WHICH ARE TO BE PRESENTED TO YOU FOR WHAT THEY ARE - AN AFFRONT TO MY DEATH ON THE CROSS." comments in parenthesis by PocketSketch
She is predicting Pope Francis will come out with a new doctrine which Catholics "must not accept." I do not wish to be cruel, Anon. but is English your native tongue? Do not accept means do not obey. The Pope is going to teach error, lies, set up a new world order religion, inclusive of pagans and atheists, destroy the Church, excommunicate all dissidents, remove tabernacles, set up an abomination and desecrate the Eucharist. M-DM is teaching he will do all this precisely because she wants us to disobey him. She has painted him as an evil figure with a "vile mouth". You suppose she is asking the world to love him after such a description?
After all this, you suggest faithful Catholics, defending the honor of Holy Mother Church, are persecuting Jesus. Don't you realize that the hatred you speak of is coming from one source? Marie -Divine Mercy. Anon.,you are lying in a pit with a brood of vipers and you haven't the sense to climb out. Or maybe the pit is just so deep you can no longer see the light.
Hi Anon,
DeleteYou posted..."I have been trying to tell everyone that you are missing the point, you are overreacting, and distorting the truth. MDM is NOT telling us to Hate the Pope!!! Now stop it! The words are from Jesus and He is just speaking His mind and much of it is a prophecy of what the pope is up to. You are twisting words and exagerating the truth."
Read the following from MDM.....
"The cunning imposter, who has lain in waiting in the wings, patiently, will soon declare his reign over My poor unsuspecting sacred servants. The pain he will inflict is too hard for Me to bear, and yet, his reign will culminate in the final purging of evil from within the core of My Church. "
He who dares to sit in My Temple, and who has been sent by the evil one, cannot speak the truth, for he does not come from Me. He has been sent to dismantle My Church and tear it up into little pieces before he will spit it out from his vile mouth."
Those words cause fear and hatred Anon! Read the remarks from some of MDM's followers......
"I would like to up slap the back of frankie's head here and knock that white cap off the top of his head...and then ask him "What are you thinking???" I mean it's not like he's the pope or something...." Regarding the Pope and Cardinals another stated ...".. that she'd like to kick their a**** out of the Vatican " These are the 'fruits' Anon...Rotten fruits! So don't tell me that we are exaggerating the truth, because as you can see we are not.
You posted..."I made a comment and my words got twisted too. You wrote he is called a "BEAST" which is completely misquoted and an exagerated assumption. This is why I warn you all. The beast is one entity as sketched out in revelations, and the false prophet is another, and in MDM both are mentioned but the pope is nowhere called the beast."
Well I think "Vile Imposter" and "Cunning" is more than enough anyway Anon....don't you? The followers do however call him the "Beast " and "Frankie the frog" just a couple of the many awful names they've given him.
You posted..."Most of your hatred is based on misunderstanding that MDM is telling people to not obey the church, which is a lie."........."MDM does not want us leaving the church, the devil has decieved you into believing this so that you consider these messages evil and thus you fight agianst them, .."
I don't have any hatred in me Anon. I just fear for you and the other devotees of MDM who blindly follow messages from an anonymous person, who is spreading the word that our Pope is a "cunning imposter"
You posted.... "judge the Pope?" we are not judging the pope, Jesus has witnessed and has spoken about what is coming regarding the pope, we are just informed about the pope."
You are following these messages therefore you have judged the Pope, unless of course you have reservations that the messages might be false?
I've just noticed the post from pocket Sketch...Please take not of his words...."......She has painted him as an evil figure with a "vile mouth". You suppose she is asking the world to love him after such a description? "
We are only trying to help you Anon
God Bless You
Reply to Anon. June17@10:41 PM, You will find I share your interest in the conversion of St. Paul in an above posting dated May 6th. In Catholic teaching the laying on of hands has great significance. If and when M-DM shows some miracles I may reconsider. Keep in mind, Satan can perform wondrous feats, too, so I would certainly await confirmation by the Church who has two millenniums of experience discerning. Of course, M-DM has refused to submit to Church authority, so the question is moot.
ReplyDeleteIf God allowed Satan complete free will we would all be murdered the instant we commited a sin or perhaps the instant we decided to go to confession. (thus capturing us in hell) Satan attacked Padre Pio but was certainly not allowed to kill him, also the book of Job shows exactly how God draws the lines of where Satan can move. When Jesus was questioned about being possesed He said Satan can not be against Satan. Thus I hope that this is a truth we can still count on, and as I have stated the MDM messages are filled with truth and prayer and faith! (ignoring the few controversial messages for the moment) Trust me: I have gone to church all my life, I confess regularly (well from two weeks to a month), I've lectored for about ten years. I'm no saint but I consider myself a faithful lay person. I feel God has blessed me with a sound but simple understanding of my faith. So I do not believe that Satan could be disguising himself in a revelation that attracts true faith and is a legitimate preparation for the second coming. To me and I thank God for such a clear simple understanding it is simple: Evil is all around and is not disguised, it is in pornography, in liberalism, in people turning away from faith, and in not bringing their children up in the faith. It is not some secret trap to catch the innocent.
DeleteIf you don't think "Satan can perform wondrous feats" you missed the couple of postings about the false seer, Sr. Magdalena of the Cross posted on the Mystics of the Church website. She fooled many people who were convinced of her holiness. As you are convinced your seer is authentic, and therefore there are no parallels, you risk nothing if you take the time to read this little bit of Catholic history.
Deletehttp://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html
I agree with you, "evil is all around us" but I beg to differ when you say it "is not disguised."
Hi Anon,
DeleteYou posted..."So I do not believe that Satan could be disguising himself in a revelation that attracts true faith and is a legitimate preparation for the second coming."
Read the following....
1) "I have spoken in Truth. I have never led you astray. The Words that I speak are the Words of My Heart; I cannot utter a lie for I am the Truth. I am Jesus, Son of the Living God, and the time that is left to mankind is limited. Man has become blind, full of self importance; proud, and lusts for the material wealth of this world and can no longer read the signs of the times. I have told you of these times, I have told you that one day you would stand alone against the antichrist: that time is close now. They shall excommunicate you and cast you down but I say, stay strong in the knowledge of My Love. Within a time this world will start to doubt the one who has claimed the Throne of My Peter. Within a time the world will become confused again for they shall begin to realise their wrongdoing; they shall begin to realise that they have been deceived but it shall be too late.
2nd Prophet......"the effect of this Great Warning will be of such magnitude that many will want to die."
2) "The world has now reached such limits of sin and sinning that My Eternal Father has lowered His Hand permitting all arranged with the Heavens - with the Angels and all of the Heavenly personages - to now take place. We only await the sequence of events to take place which instigates/starts the whole of the ‘end days’ events. Now I wish to describe the great, beginning, event in the series of events which constitute the ‘end days’ events. The Holy Father must flee the Vatican. "
The two seers who wrote the above both predicted the Pope after John Paul 11 would be the Anti-Pope.
You see the need for caution? The Church is the one to follow not an anonymous woman leading you all from the Church
God Bless You
Reply to Anon. June 17 @ 10:29 PM,
ReplyDeleteThank you again for the courtesy of your response. Sorry you didn’t bother to do your homework first and read the entire encyclical by Pope Pius XII but maybe some poor soul, hungry for some real meat and potatoes, after the slop served up on the W2C, will make the effort during this Year of Faith. Be that as it may, God is patient, so maybe another time.
As for your comment M-DM is not demanding disobedience to Pope Francis, where is your logic? Is she not trying to warn the world about the “cunning impostor?” What member of the one, true Church would be obedient to any figure of authority, pope or not, if they truly believed M-DM’s description of him as the pope working with the AntiChrist to dismantle the Church and tear it into little pieces? Your comment is contrived. Make all the frivolous conjectures you want but the God of salvation history moves forward and Christ still governs and directs His Church as He promised. His Word, “I will be with you always.” is good enough for me.
I do not deny that I'm not a bible scholar and do not read encyclicals from popes. It does not make me less catholic than you. I am thankful for my simple and direct faith.
DeleteWEll I guess I'm one who can be both obedient to pope francis while being informed that he will likely break away from the truths the church has carried on since the beginning. Perhaps his encyclical will be the one I read very carefully!
Reply to Anon June 18@ 1:12pm who said: “I am thankful for my simple and direct faith. Well I guess I'm one who can be both obedient to pope francis [sic] while being informed that he will likely break away from the truths the church has carried on since the beginning.”
DeleteSimple and direct faith? There is nothing simple or direct about M-DM. If your faith was that simple you wouldn’t need to complicate it with her shenanigans. You are not the first disciple of M-DM to proudly boast about your “simple faith.” Certainly you don’t need to read encyclicals or be a biblical scholar to be a Catholic in good standing. Nonetheless, you have found time to read hundreds of daily messages and prayers created on the W2C website or published in her books. Yes that is an assumption but you are the one who has put yourself forward as an expert on M-DM; gone so far as to boldly proclaim the Miraculous Rosary blog is pouring forth lies, hatred, and completely misrepresenting or twisting the facts.
Anon., you have strained out the gnat and swallowed the camel because you care not the least for the reputation of an innocent man. Where is your sense of justice? Where is your fidelity to the Church which nourished you with life giving sacraments from her bosom? Where is your mercy when you side with enemies of the Church who cruelly attack and make a mockery of her?
The post which will follow later should give pause to anyone who presumes that they can remain “obedient” Catholics, all the while defending the indefensible corruption of faith as presented on the W2C.
reply to AnonJune18@1:12
DeleteThis single paragraph from the Early Church Father, St. Cyprian is amazingly fresh and pertinent today even though it was written in the third century. (For readers who primary language is not English I have added a few definitions within parenthesis for easier reading comprehension.)
“BUT NOT ONLY MUST WE GUARD AGAINST THINGS WHICH ARE OPEN AND MANIFEST BUT ALSO AGAINST THOSE WHICH DECEIVE WITH THE SUBTLETY OF CLEVER FRAUD. Now what is more clever, or what more subtle than that the enemy, detected and cast down by the coming of Christ . . . DEVISE A NEW FRAUD, UNDER THE VERY TITLE OF CHRISTIAN NAME TO DECEIVE THE INCAUTIOUS? HE INVENTED HERESIES AND SCHISMS WITH WHICH TO OVERTHROW THE FAITH, TO CORRUPT TRUTH, TO DIVIDE UNITY. THOSE WHOM HE CANNOT HOLD IN THE BLINDNESS OF THE OLD WAY, HE CIRCUMVENTS {outwits} and DECEIVES BY THE ERROR OF A NEW WAY. HE SNATCHES MEN FROM THE CHURCH ITSELF, and, WHILE THEY SEEM TO THEMSELVES TO HAVE ALREADY APPROACHED THE LIGHT and to have escaped the night of the world, HE AGAIN POURS FORTH OTHER SHADOWS UPON THE UNSUSPECTING, so that, although they do not stand with the Gospel of Christ and with the observation of Him and with the law, they call themselves Christians, and, ALTHOUGH THEY WALK IN DARKNESS, THEY THINK THAT THEY HAVE LIGHT, WHILE THE ADVERSARY CAJOLES {persuades with flattery} and DECEIVES, who, as the Apostle says, TRANSFORMS HIMSELF INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, and adorns his ministers as those of justice who offer night for day, death for salvation, despair under the offer of hope, perfidy {treachery} under the pretext of faith, ANTICHRIST UNDER THE NAME OF CHRIST, SO THAT WHILE THEY TELL PLAUSIBLE {seemingly reasonable} LIES, THEY FRUSTRATE THE TRUTH by their subtlety. This happens, most beloved brethren, because there is no return to the source of truth, and the Head is not sought, and the doctrine of the heavenly Master is not kept.” St. Cyprian of Carthage, The Unity of the Catholic Church, paragraph 3
Hi Anon,
ReplyDeleteHere are a couple of remarks from the followers of MDM...the 'fruits' seems quite rotten...
"I would like to up slap the back of frankie's head here and knock that white cap off the top of his head...and then ask him "What are you thinking???" I mean it's not like he's the pope or something....
Another person said regarding the Pope and Cardinals - that she'd like to kick their a**** out of the Vatican"
"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him.
~St Catherine of Siena
These are more words from a false prophet...Surely you can see they are false?...
"I had told you, My children, “beware of the wolf in sheep’s clothing.” I have Warned you that if you did not turn away from sin that the evil one would enter My Church. Now it is done. The cunning imposter, who has lain in waiting in the wings, patiently, will soon declare his reign. Scripture has been fulfilled and this earth will now reap what it has sown. Prepare, children, prepare for the destruction of all things that you have known and believed in. He shall rise slowly and gain the confidence of you, My children, and then he will begin to destroy all that I have created in Love. I am calling you, My child, as you read these Words, to be a part of My Remnant, to be a part of My Army of Love. Believe in Me, My Ways and My Laws and you shall be a part of My Remnant of Truth.
The words above came from a false prophet who predicted that P Benedict would be the imposter, the deceiver...not much difference between them and MDM's words is there?
God Bless
Good job uncovering the works of darkness, Janet. Let us sincerely hope that no Catholic would make such a remark with regard to any of the Lord's anointed. Talk like that gives God glory?
Delete"NOTHING IS COVERED UP THAT WILL NOT BE REVEALED, OR HIDDEN THAT WILL NOT BE KNOWN. THEREFOR WHATEVER YOU HAVE SAID IN THE DARK SHALL BE HEARD IN THE LIGHT, AND WHAT YOU HAVE WHISPERED IN PRIVATE ROOMS SHALL BE PROCLAIMED UPON THE HOUSETOPS . . .” Luke 12
I never heard that gross disgusting quote before which you claim is from St Catherine of Siena. I do not agree with it whatsoever. I think that is an awful thing to say and yes even though she is declared a saint I would argue with her over those words.
ReplyDeleteAs far as any follower of MDM, I have nothing to say, certainly there will be followers who misinterpret and misrepresent the messages. As soon as you bring quotes from followers into the argument you are comparing apples to oranges, oh no, more like comparing the word of man to the word of God.
There you have it. An MDMer knows even more than the great St. Catherine of Siena. She did indeed say this, and it is appropriately stated in the case of MDM. Here is the full context from the Catholic Answers forum:
DeleteQuote "Context matters, and St Catherine of Siena's ("SCS") quote must be understood in it's proper context. She was writing to the Florentines just before the Western Schism. There was a tremendous amount of tension between the French religious and the Italians in Florence. At the height of this tension, the Florentines revolted against Pope Gregory XI and had just publicly massacred one of the pope's delegates (a nuncio he sent to Florence in an effort to establish diplomacy). After the massacre, the pope placed Florence under an interdict. Upon learning this, SCS went to Avignon herself and visited with the pope, pleading with him to lift the interdict. At the same time, the Florentines were raising an army to oppose the pope and she wrote to them with a plea not to revolt as it would cause terrible upheaval within the Church; thus, she wrote the quote above.
Essentially, SCS was saying to the revolting Florentines, "even if the pope is as terrible as you say he is, we still have a duty to respect the office." In addition to her understanding of Church Authority (i.e., that Jesus did not leave us with a democratic republic), she was relying upon a uniquely Christian principle; namely, "love your enemies, and pray for those that persecute you" (Matt. 5:44). For a complete description of the context in which SCS was writing the above quote, read Catherine of Siena: A Biography (by Anne Baldwin)." END QUOTE
Source: http://forums.catholic.com/printthread.php?t=640604
I wish to share something I found looking into St Catherine of Siena which I find surprising. There were footnotes on the bottom of a page about her on the catholicism.org web site. I don't know much about this web site but assume it is accepted as legitimately catholic. if this web site is known to be heretical or something let me know. and the note is towards the bottom of the page:
Deletehttp://catholicism.org/saint-catherine-of-siena.html
note 1....The Protestant Revolt, opening the door to self-deification, led to the Masonic French Revolution in 1789, and its unspeakable Reign of Terror, after which the cohorts of Satan continue to our day to plot the destruction of the Catholic Church and Christian civilization. So powerful (naturally speaking) are these enemies of God that they now openly and boldly speak of their plans for a “new world order” — the reign of Antichrist!
My point is that here is an independant from MDM messages source which speaks directly of the evil in the world, the true enemies of God, who plot the destruction of the Catholic church. Thus the messages are mearly the possibility that they have penetrated and partly succeeded and thus the end is near and the second coming is gonna happen which btw they also say. Please do not open up a new argument! I'm tired! I just think that this evidence fits the messages which is why I have no problem with them. I'm catholic and thankful for it, i dread the day when the pope may betray our church, but I'm aware that this has been a plan of evil for many many years! And it is foretold, in a sketchy manner in the book of revelations too. It's gonna happen!
The website looks fine. It is not I who am arguing but others who will not refute the MDM doctrinal errors.
DeleteThe idea that people want to create a one world order has never been in doubt in my mind. Just look at the quote of the wealthy and powerful David Rockefeller who comes right out and admits it.
NONE OF THAT proves MDM true.
Sigh. I'm tired too. I'm tired of all this hither and yon discussion, but NOBODY, not ONE MDMer, will address the doctrinal difficulties that abound in the MDM messages.
Lovey, June 18th 3:24 PM
ReplyDelete“I have asked numerous times that you SPECIFICALLY address the doctrinal issues associated with the MDM messages, and you still haven't done that. As a matter of fact, neither has ANY MDMer who has commented on this blog.”
I find this declaration very amusing you may have mistaken me with somebody else. The other Anon that you are corresponding with by now (June 16th, 3:37 PM & 50:6 PM; and June 18th 3:13 PM & 12:34 PM) is not the same person.
If you only posted the article that I was requesting you to post (May 28th 2013) about the “Angelic visitation/ Messenger” that you never believe in when you address it and discarded right away on this same blog you have long time ago receive from me the specific answers to the “Reunite, Festering, and All Paths” that you consider heretical and must be rejected. Since then, I have already sent you two commentaries but unfortunately until now it never find enough space in your blog site for unknown reason…there must be an explanation on your part as to why you withheld the said comments. What puzzles me is that there was no account that touches the Pope, Cardinals or the Bishops to consider my comments derogatory to the above issue, yet you may seem interested to have it address head on.
I am somewhat confuse if you are really seeking for the truth to set us free. I said “US” because like you all I wanted is to know the Truth, which I believe will give us more inspiration to be called the children of God and bear witness for Jesus.
Jesus King of Mercy I Trust in You!
Ave Maria!
I have no way of distinguishing one "Anonymous" comment from another.
DeleteI think I have been very clear about why some comments do not get published. I have already stated numerous times I will NOT post comments that try to further the MDM agenda. It's a waste of time, brain energy, and blog space.
I don't know what you're talking about with "angelic visitation/messenger". I must be bold-faced honest, I'm not interested in the least bit.
If you will DIRECTLY address the doctrinal contradictions found in the MDM messages, I will post. Otherwise, you're out of luck. Get off the soap box.
It's absolutely NO surprise that you can't explain away the doctrinal errors. The truth is, as the bishops said, the messages ARE heretical and no explanation will erase this fact.
I am not "seeking the truth" because I already have it. It is called THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Here is an example of just how deluded MDM followers are. This quote is taken right from the MDM organization's Facebook Page which they sponsor in order to sell their booka and get people to come to their indoctrination seminars. The first commenter is a woman who warns them about the condemnation of the messages by the Slovakian bishops. Look at the ridiculous response! (names have been removed)
ReplyDeleteBEGIN QUOTE: "COMMENT: Slovakian bishops say this is false and heretical messages
Yesterday at 11:56am via mobile
RESPONSE BY AVID MDM APOLOGIST: Who would you rather listen to - these confused Bishops or Christ Himself who speaks through His Messages in this Mission. I know who I've got my trust in. Dominie we are invited to listen, just take some time to read some Messages for yourself and prayerfully discern them as a matter of course. The Holy Spirit will help you if you are in a State of Grace. You will be fine. Just trust in Him. You will always hear from those who are too afraid to change their life and live the Teachings of Christ in favour of their worldly lives. But that is just what Jesus is asking us to re think. He just wants us without all 'the frills'. Take a little step forward to hear Him Speaking. He will do the rest." END QUOTE
Yes, you saw it here folks. This MDM follower says the BISHOPS are confused, not MDM and her followers!
These messages put such a demonic grip on the MDM devotees that they are completely blinded to truth and can be completely irrational.
Now look at these statements, again from the MDM organization's recruitment Facebook Page. Apparently, according to this MDMer, if something has been blessed once, any and all copies of it anywhere in the world are automatically blessed by God, or they are automatically blessed through faith. Have you ever heard of such a thing? The "seal" is a piece of paper with a prayer on it that's supposed to save all devotees from the coming tribulations. I'll bet our holy martyrs throughout the centuries wished they had computer printers...it would have saved them a lot of trouble. Names of the commenters have been removed:
ReplyDeleteBEGIN QUOTE:
AVID MDM APOLOGIST: "(NAME), the Seal will act and is acting as the "Blood of the Lamb' during the Passover. God has promised that all who have the Seal, framed and Blessed in their homes, reciting the special prayer (Crusade Prayer #33) will be saved - NO MATTER WHAT! Yes powerful indeed! A great Gift to humanity. My son has had one for 3 weeks as a business card in his wallet and he has made some pretty powerful decisions regarding his life getting back on track in the past week! I attribute the courage he has been given to this Seal! Love you being here (NAME) - praying for your strength and continuing journey of faith!
3 · 23 hours ago
2ND COMMENTER: Thank you so much (NAME). I have the Seal on me, in the house and car. I am supposed to have it blessed?
1 · 18 hours ago
2ND COMMENTER: ?
2 · 18 hours ago
2ND COMMENTER: we are both very new to these message
2 · 18 hours ago
3RD COMMENTER: Much appreciated (NAME)!
1 · 18 hours ago
3RD COMMENTER: I thought I would take them to be blessed. Is that right?
1 · 18 hours ago
AVID MDM APOLOGIST: We were told on Maria's site that Jesus allowed her to have a priest Bless the original and that this Blessing was for all that were downloaded from the one on the site (I should have been clearer). But this also comes down to faith. Faith has already Blessed them in God's Power. Jesus' Mission is to save. He understands that not all individuals have access to having His Father's Seal Blessed, so by that token, God will not forsake those who have the Seal but not have officially Blessed It. All will be saved by the Seal, that is His Promise! If you wish to have them Blessed in front of you maybe with other Sacramentals then this would probably help not to get a refusal.
1 · 18 hours ago
3RD COMMENTER: thanks! Why would they refuse?
18 hours ago
AVID MDM APOLOGIST: They shouldn't but here in Queensland the Bishop made a public statement to deny Christ's Messages because of the 'heretical' argument. His will cannot be placed on another. This is God's Invitation and our free will must decide for ourselves through the Grace of Discernment. But because of his stance, many priests have cowered and now will not give those in Christ's Remnant Army a 'look-in". So you may have better luck than us over here. I hope you do. Pray before you approach the priest that all is in God's Will." END QUOTE
Imagine that...priests not blessing the seal because they are obeying the bishops who call these messages "heretical", and she says these priests are "cowering"! The most amazing part is this MDM follower encourages them to try for the blessing anyway.
The Bishop to whom she refers is the Archbishop of Brisbane in Australia who has said the messages are heretical. to see his full statement, find the link to his letter in the article above.
compared to the comments here on this web site, these are much holier because they lack anger and hatred. by the way, put your attention on the messages not the word of the followers. put your attention on Christ not on man.
DeleteHello this is anonymous (Robert). I wrote a few responses late last night and do not see them. I know you are selectively posting comments. but I see some new ones above which seem to be submitted after mine. I really hope you will not cut my words out because they are not suiting your intention here.
DeleteYes Robert...I am selectively posting comments as I have stated many times. Your comments which I chose not to post criticize the comments of others whose opinions I value highly. For example, PocketSketch has a tremendous knowledge of Catholic teaching. You called PocketSketch's comments "blowing smoke" and continued on with your MDM stuff. PocketSketch does MORE than blow smoke. This commenter provides Catholic doctrine that I think you should learn. You also accused others of "emotional comments" while you consider yours, which go at long length while brushing Catholic doctrine under the rug to be of higher value. I don't. Not one MDMer can refute the contradictions to Catholic and scriptural teaching.
DeleteFor example, just looking at the very first among the over one hundred MDM messages, there are contradictions to Catholic teaching that nobody so far has been able to explain away without contradicting the Catholic faith. I'll post them here a third time:
On Nov. 8, 2010 The "virgin mary" said, BEGIN QUOTE, "Never forget, God loves all His children, including those sinners who have offended Him. Beg for Mercy for each and every one of you. THE HOLY FAMILY WILL REUNITE. (Pause…. at that point I was surprised, so I asked Our Lady, “Have I got this part right?” She smiled gently and continued…)" END QUOTE
Catholic rebuttal: Since Our Lady’s Assumption into heaven, the Holy Family is united eternally in heaven. They are not separated, so why would they need to "REUNITE"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Nov. 13, 2010 "jesus" said,BEGIN QUOTE, "I Am suffering to such an extent that the Wounds inflicted upon Me at My terrible Crucifixion, to which I succumbed, ARE OPENING ONCE AGAIN AND FESTERING, leaving Me in the utmost painful agony of Body, Soul and Divinity. Yet I will never give up loving all of you." END QUOTE
Catholic rebuttal: The body of Our Lord can never suffer corruption, such as festering. This is also blasphemy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On November 21, 2010 Jesus said, BEGIN QUOTE "All paths lead to God, the creator of mankind." END QUOTE
Catholic rebuttal: The real Jesus actually said ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE CAN COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." By definition "all paths" include animism, spiritualism, witchcraft, Marxism, occultism, buddhism, etc. MDM's "jesus" tells us they all lead to God! Impossible.
I think these three are a good start.
Anonymous of June 19 at 1:49, I am assuming you are Robert, I have never, ever been angry or hateful in my comments. Neither have those who are trying to instruct MDM followers in the contradictions of the messages to Catholic faith.
DeleteYour comment is an example of an emotional reaction to frustration which I only post as an example of the true situation here. Nobody has characterized you in such a bad light Robert, and I won't allow you to do so to me or my readers.
I truly mean this when I say may God bless you. Please pray for me as I pray for you.
(Robert - Anon) I wrote myself an answer to your contradictions, well the ones regarding the holy family and the wounds. I will not submit it to you for I stand by my last response and I'm sure you would argue my points anyway, and your points did make me think, but did not change my stance. You should shut this thing down but add messages that it was wrong to respond like you did. If God allows you to feel remorse than you will likely find forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteLovey, June 19th, 2013 2:51 AM
ReplyDelete“I have already stated numerous times I will NOT post comments that try to further the MDM agenda. It's a waste of time, brain energy, and blog space.”
I have likened this position to a horse with a BLINDER on both eyes. Whichever the jockey wishes it to direct … it goes, even to the point bringing down the horse to the cliff. The above paragraph is self serving, you created an argument for me to response yet you withheld comment in furtherance of the issue you have created.
You are not the only one using brain energy. Likewise I do my homework and daily research to expound the truth of your contention whether to believe your cause or not. Restriction will not serve best your cause of action. I pray that you may realize your position for the greater glory of equity knowing the truth. ( Boy Culaba, Anon of May 6th, 2:53 & 2:55 AM; June 14th, 2:40 AM; June 19th 2:33 AM;)
Jesus King of Mercy I Trust in You!
Ave Maria!
The simple fact of the matter that every MDMer here avoids is...the messages contradict Catholic doctrine. Numerous predictions have failed. It's that simple. The messages are false.
DeleteI read a sample of your supposed contradictions of Catholic doctrine: Holy Family reuniting, Jesus' wounds, and all paths leading to God and disagree. I see no contradiction to Catholic doctrine. Who makes you more of an authority than me?
DeleteFour bishops, at least five prominent theologians and uncountable priests whose advice I follow when they say STAY AWAY FROM THE MESSAGES OF MDM are the ones who make me more of an authority than you when I follow their advice.
Delete"There can only be one pope in one lifetime". Yeah, that's it. At the moment we have only one Pope: Pope Francis. Benedict XVI is no longer pope. One simple proof that these so-called messages are NOT from jesus.
ReplyDeletewhere does it say we have more than one pope. (in a lifetime?) Pope Benedict is retired, Pope Francis is acting. MDM message do not recognize Pope Francis as rightful pope but consider Benedict legitimate. And why would one revelation be proof that they are not from Jesus? There is no proof in any way from what you posted. A long time ago we had two and even three men being claimed as rightful pope. That was a schism. Benedict is not claiming to be pope, he accepts being retired. The fact that the message declares something you find hard to believe does not make them not of God. When Jesus said He body is true food and His blood drink many though he was a out of his mind and many turned away. We know how that played out do we not? Focus on my last statement, that the Jesus we agree on, who walked this earth and is written of in our Gospels and who is the center of our faith was once criticized and being out of his mind, possessed, etc. Yet we see that they were wrong because they could not accept his hard words.
Delete(Robert anonymous) here are the problems:
ReplyDeleteeven if I present valid alternatives to the conclusion you draw from these three examples of message references which you claim are contradictory or not feasible, you will not change your mind, and you will not admit that my alternative interpretations are feasible. Even if you slide your way out of it you will find more. Thus there is no way I can convince you, for you play unfair.
secondly after I insisted that the messages do not tell the readers to turn against the pope, but that they merely claim he will (future event) be loyal to the beast, you dropped it but never admitted that I was right. You never admitted that these were false claims your attack was promoting. In fact you will likely start that up all over again, or other contributors will. So you want MDM supporters to provide proof that these discrepancies you point out are feasible but you never provided proof to support the claims about turning against the pope, except to say that 'followers' of MDM are saying such and such. That is a cop out.
thirdly when I caught a contributor mis quote a message saying that it called the pope beast, which was incorrect since that implied that he is the beast which he can't be since he is claimed to be loyal to the beast. the contributor did make the correction but again instead of writing clearly that he did misquote messages, he too copped out by saying that the messages called the pope so many names its hard to keep track. then when I responded to that cop out you refused to post my reply! As I said, God lets the sun and rain fall upon good and evil, but you cut and past as you choose. You do not even follow the example God sets from that scripture.
so why should I present my arguments explaining how there is nothing contrary about those message passages?
How about you post that you read the message from yesterday that says what you are doing is called a most grave sin according to the messages. How about promising me that if I were to post a viable explanation to the claimed contradictions you would admit being wrong or admit that there is a way to look at them as not a contradiction, and finally that you would change your stance.
Robert (anonymous)
Are you a mason? or part of the movement underway to undermine God's will?
ReplyDeleteThe Catholic Church canonized St Maria Faustina Kowalska. In her diary entry # 1487 she writes starting from the 8th paragraph: "...Because I am faithful to You, I am persecuted and suffer much. Jesus responds (bold): It is because you are not of this world that the world hates you. First it persecuted Me. Persecution is a sign that you are following in My footsteps faithfully"
ReplyDeleteI see no need for any more replies to this horrible persecution of MDM messages. The above is witness that a saint was persecuted and that Jesus responded with a lesson for us all. I would dare to guess that the persecution she spoke of was from religious sisters of her own order since she was a cloistered nun. Am I mistaken?
Lord, let all who read this find simple truth in it and help them to see that this persecution only shows how faithful the messages are presenting Your words and will!
Robert
I'm frankly shocked that you don't know the story behind the quote from Sister Faustina above. Her diary is an amazing book to read. It is thick, but it is fascinating, edifying, and spiritually rich. To read the actual words of Jesus is beautiful and astounding.
DeleteI strongly suggest you stop reading MDM who has been condemned by four bishops, numerous theologians, and uncountable priests, and pick up The Diary of Sister Faustina and read in her own words what a REAL apparition of Jesus is like. He NEVER contradicted Catholic doctrine, and He stated how pleased He was at her obedience to her bishop, spiritual director, and Mother Superior.
I wouldn't call pointing out the doctrinal errors in the MDM messages "horrible persecution". I would call it testing the spirits which MDM seems to have failed to do, and excellent discernment.
Reply to Anon. Signed Robert, June 22 @ 8:53 pm:
DeleteApostles of M-DM, flattery, with lying words, have deceived you. You are no longer part of the remnant army if you believe that Jesus has abandoned the Church He founded and that the work of the Holy Spirit has been circumscribed by evil traitors from within. You haven’t preserved the faith; you have lost it. God is all powerful. He can write straight with crooked lines.
You have allowed an invisible Internet trickster to creep up on you with cunning; moreover, you have allowed her to persecute the visible head of the Catholic Church. The fact that you characterize the defense of Pope Francis as “horrible persecution” shows how far your thinking has warped from the deposit of faith. If you are an enemy of Holy Mother Church that is one thing; on the other hand, if you think yourself a faithful Catholic, your logic is feebleminded.
Kindly, take Lovey’s advice as an antidote to the poison you have been drinking. Meanwhile, stop attacking the unity of the Mystical Body of Christ and contemplate the warning from St. Cyprian of Carthage on “The Unity of the Catholic Church.” .
“Since the Lord warns us in these words: 'You are the salt of the earth,' and since He bids us to be simple unto harmlessness, and yet to be prudent with our simplicity, what else, most beloved brethren, befits us than to have foresight and watching with an anxious heart alike to perceive the snares of the crafty enemy and to beware lest we, who have put on Christ, the wisdom of God the Father, seem to be less wise in guarding our salvation. For persecution alone is not to be feared, nor the advances which are made in open attack to overwhelm and cast down the servants of God. To be cautious is easier when the object of fear is manifest, and the soul is prepared for the contest beforehand, when the adversary declares himself. The enemy is more to be feared and guarded against when he creeps up secretly, when deceiving us under the appearance of peace he steals forward by hidden approaches, from which he receives the name of “serpent”(creeper, crawler, stealer). This is always his cunning; this is his blind and dark deceit for circumventing men. Thus from the very beginning of the world did he deceive and, flattering with lying words, mislead the inexperienced soul with its reckless incredulity. Thus trying to tempt the Lord himself, as if he would creep up again and deceive, he approaches secretly. Yet he was understood and driven back and so cast down, because he was discovered and un-masked.”
Listen to yourself! You call this web page a mere "pointing out the doctrinal errors in the MDM messages, that it is not a "horrible persecution". The page is called "schism and a deception of Satan"! To me that is persecution in a most serious way and proves you a liar. How can you say you are not persecuting MDM messages? I think even your followers believe that this is the point of this page!
DeleteYou then say you "would call it testing the spirits" Testing the spirits? What doctrine do those words come from? Where does the bible or church tell us to test the spirits? I trust that any reader who reads my point and your rebutal will be able to find the reality. You consider your points excellent discernment?
But I'm not shocked that you say I don't know the story behind the quote from St Faustina. That is exactly how you behaive here, and exactly why I have held back my explanation for the supposed doctrinal errors you harp over. You dismiss my point entirely and just say I misunderstood her words!
Robert
Robert, you said, "You then say you "would call it testing the spirits" Testing the spirits? What doctrine do those words come from? Where does the bible or church tell us to test the spirits?"
DeleteSt. John said it in the bible:
1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."
The messages of MDM violate Catholic doctrine and Sacred Scripture. Run far away and bring other souls with you.
Reply to Anon, June 23 @ 11:00 who want to know where does the Bible or Church tell us to test the spirits? Many times in point of fact, I will only point to one.
Delete"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether or not they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 John 4
PocketSketch: your reply is off the wall, I guess you are trying to say: in defense of pope Francis you are persecuting MDM messages. Yeah that is kind of what I said.
DeleteLovey: I'm tempted to tease you and say "I'm shocked you don't know the story behind St John's words" Seriously though, that is an excellent reference. But we wont be able to come to a conclusion since I will turn it to you and you will turn it to me. But lets try to be friends for a moment. When St John says test the spirits I believe he means the spirits we experience within. Thus I would say for you this means to test the spirit that drives you to condemn the messages. For me this would mean to test the spirit that makes me want to defend them here. However it seemed the way you used the phrase (before pointing out 1John 4:1) that you were testing the spirits of MDM. I do not think John means that we are testing the spirits of the external world, because the spirit comes to us. For example an evil spirit might tempt me to examine pornography, for you catching me could simply judge that I'm in the grip of sin. There is no test of me for you, my actions are obvious. For me, in this example, the words of John ring true: I ask why do I want to see this? Oh curiousity, and lust, hmmm an evil spirit. I would be examining the spirits I face. His conclusion saying many false prophets are in the world is an example I believe of the result, that they the false prophets are people who did not examine the spirit that sends them out saying the false things they are saying, such perhaps as people who proclaim "there is no hell" or "there is no creation". So we both must follow John's words and consider which spirit drives us to a) defend MDM messages, or b) deny them, or c) persecute them. I believe the messages themeselves approve either a) or b) but warn strongly against c).
He clearly referred to false prophets in the verse I quoted.
DeleteHere are others from Scripture:
Matt 7:15-16 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."
2 Cor 11:14-15 "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness."
2 Peter 2:1-2: "But there will also be false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves."
Lovey, yes I realize I botched that reading, I'm sorry. I was speaking with a friend before about this scripture when I realized I did not get the point. In 1John4:1 John uses the test that any spirit which proclaims Jesus Christ as Lord and savior is sound, but one that does not as worldly and a lie. MDM certainly passes this test. The messages are in the name of Jesus.
DeleteYes I see you are questioning prophets. Do you realize that one very consistent part of our faith is that prophets are rejected and criticized and persecuted and often killed. Jesus was treated the same way. Oh how I wish you could hear this point... However, I'm not saying all prophets are true. In my discussion tonight with my friend we talked about St Vincent Ferrer, who lived in the era of the schism and St Catherine of Siena. He is known as the preacher of the apoccolypse because he believed and preached the second coming was imminent. Remember too that St John in his letter was also strongly under this belief. Thus do we not have an example in scripture of false prophecy or misunderstanding which is not condemned? OK lets not argue that, because we surely wont be finished before the second coming. St Vincent Ferrer was also known for fighting against the corruption and immorality in the church at that time for over twenty years. My conclusion, as always, the church declared a saint somebody who is not all that different from the prophet of the MDM messages. But all my examples and effort are to no avail against the hard heart against them. The part that hurts me is that I see real lies against the MDM messages, I see lies in how people are criticizing it. It is when a lie surfaces in the persecution of a prophet that really prove them, as I mentioned in the quote about St Faustina. btw St Faustina did not make is a point to emphasize persecution since it would be condemning her fellow religious sisters but she did make a few references in her writing one of which I pointed bout. The words spoke for themselves but you moved on, changed the subject.
Robert
ReplyDeleteLovey, June 24,2013 12:05 AM
Lovey, I shall not go farther, we will address the verses you conveniently provided.
The verses Mt.7:15-16, “…YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TELL THEM BY THEIR FRUITS” is the most important context to identify the false prophets”; 2Cor.11:14-15, “These people are counterfeit apostles, “THEY ARE DISHONEST WORKMEN and disguised as apostles of Christ”; 2Ptr.2:1-2, “As there were false prophets in the past history…who will insinuate their own disruptive views and DISOWN THE MASTER who purchased their freedom”. In 1John 4:1-4; “It is not every spirit, my dear people, that you can trust; test them, to see if they came from God; there are many false prophets, now, in the world. You can tell the spirits that come from God by this: every spirit which “ACKNOWLEDGES” that Jesus Christ has come in the “FLESH” is from God; but any spirit “WHICH THAT NOT SAY THIS OF JESUS” is not from God, but the spirit of the Antichrist, whose coming you were warned about.
A)You will be able to tell them by their fruits. B) They are dishonest workmen. C)Disown the Master. D)Acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the “FLESH” is from God. All these four cited verses are formulated by four different apostles and most likely derived from the eschatological teaching of Jesus Christ to identify positively the false prophets, and here, we can safely assume it is written through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Now the question is this. Did you find this criteria in the in the person of MDM and of her messages? If your answer is yes, then provide me some proof to convince me of your contention. You may be one day find me to be a new follower of your cause, and I mean it.
Correct me if I am wrong, I believe your problems lies on your insistent of Mt. 16:18; the primacy of bishop of Rome. I do believe the gate of hell will not prevail and I honestly do hold to this promise of the Lord, but it never stated on that verse that the church shall not be infiltrated by the enemy of the church. On the contrary we have been forewarned of the impending Great Revolt by St. Paul himself. “It cannot happen until the Great Revolt has taken place and the Rebel, the Lost One, has appeared. This is the Enemy, the one who claims to be so much greater than all that men call “god”, so much greater than anything that is worshipped, that he enthrones himself IN GOD’s SANCTUARY and claims that he is God…Rebellion is at its work already, but IN SECRET, and the one who is holding it back has first to be removed before the Rebel appears openly.(2Thess.2:4-7): And this was also mentioned in the Gospel of Luke 8:13 “Those on the rock are the people who, when they first hear it, welcome the word with joy, But this have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of trial they give up.” ( Anon-Boy Culaba)
Ave Maria!
The existence of prophecies about a future anti-christ and upheaval in the church is not evidence that MDM is a true prophet.
DeleteThe proof of her falsity lies in the contradictions within her own messages as well as to Catholic doctrine. There are too many to list here. It is obvious the messages are written by a non-Catholic because MDM's "jesus" gets it wrong often. Frequently, the messages are a cloaked reaction to a public correction or public criticism I or others have made. Thus my blog post called "Jesus Reads Blogs."
If you want to see just three contradictions to Catholic teachings, I have posted them in comments above at least two or three times. I started with the very first messages of 2010 and only listed three.
The warning which she said would come "in a few months" back in 2011 has failed. One failed prophecy proves a seer false. Despite this, MDMers can't be convinced and they tend to ignore all the glaring proofs that this woman is no prophet.
You have four bishops, at least five prominent theologians, and uncountable priests calling these messages fake and warning the Catholic faithful to stay away.
If there was NO proof beyond these opinions, it would be enough for me. What is the hold these messages have on you?